7 ms·

I really wish your experience was unique. A colleague was groped. She didn't report it. It would have likely diminished her future prospects. A friend was aske

by fruzz 9y ago

I really wish your experience was unique. A colleague was groped. She didn't report it. It would have likely diminished her future prospects. A friend was asked out on dates, unsolicited, multiple times by coworkers. She just had to laugh it off. Women at a previous employment reported not being taken as seriously as men in meetings, and being passed over for promotions in favour of less qualified men. A friend reported sexualized posters of women up in the office. In the chat of my company, a sexualized video of women was passed around. I'm trans, so my challenges are a bit different. I try to hide the fact that I'm trans during interviews. A lot of people are uncomfortable with trans people (26% of Canadian men are uncomfortable moving next to one), and with interviews to see if I'm socially a good fit, that can end it. I actually changed my name to an androgynous one as to not out myself. I get misgendered at work by people who do it on purpose. I also get touched inappropriately by a coworker. In all cases, what can you do to challenge these things without being seen as "the crazy one", "too sensitive", "party pooper", or whatever? Without hurting my finances? It's shit.

turinapple 9y ago
Thanks for sharing. Everytime I've tried to challenge others' behavior towards me, I've ended up the villain...
- fruzz 9y ago
  Yah. One thing I learned works are men who aren't recipient to the behaviour standing up. There was an employee like that at my last job who would speak up. Not forcefully. I was really appreciative of what he was doing. He was treated pretty awfully, and ended up quitting.
booleandilemma 9y ago
A friend was asked out on dates, unsolicited, multiple times by coworkers. I’m a geek and don’t know the first thing about dating, but doesn’t at least one of the parties involved need to receive an unsolicited request? Isn’t that how it works?
- fruzz 9y ago
  Work isn't the place to proposition people for a romantic relationship. At all times, but especially when there's a power dynamic. When that happens, along with a gazillion other little things women are disproportionately on the receiving end of, it has the effect of dissuading women from pursuing their career in the industry.
  - cheez 9y ago
    This is wrongheaded. Work is a fine place to find partners because you are likely to be educated similarly and have similar life goals. You have to be mature in how you handle it though. One of the women I probably loved most in my life I met at work.
    - harlanji 9y ago
      Marriage creates a legal protection between partners which as far as I know is stronger than the employer/employee relationship, so the company is rational to be uncomfortable with such situations in competitive situations where court is plausible. Part of the big money game is playing by more restricted rules.
      - cheez 9y ago
        Sure, but finding partners at work is fine.
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
- ambivalents 9y ago
  > A friend was asked out on dates, unsolicited, multiple times by coworkers. It's a little ambiguous in how this is worded whether the same person asked multiple times, or if it was multiple people each asking once. BUT in the former case especially, if you get turned down for a date please respect the other's wishes and do not keep trying, especially at work. It's not cute or charming, it's just disrespectful.
fortythirteen 9y ago
Disclaimer: not in any way attempting to diminish your experience. Only adding my own, to broaden the conversation. It can be a similar experience for men (although it's definitely not something talked about). I've had a female coworker walk up behind me repeatedly and give me unsolicited back rubs and ask me if I wanted to go to an empty office. I've been flirted with and hit on repeatedly. I've had a group of women at work, some of whom were in positions of power, socially shun me because I wasn't romantically interested in one of their friends, another coworker. Most of this happened when I was younger, and I probably would respond differently now that I have more experience (I just kept my mouth shut back then). But, I still can't help but feel that I wouldn't be taken as seriously by HR, because I'm a man. I'd like to see us move past the current narrative of "Men do this to Women" and get to a place where we recognize that People shouldn't do this to other People.
- fruzz 9y ago
  Those experiences are awful. I do not dispute that there are male victims, including in the workplace. I absolutely agree that "People shouldn't do this to other People". That said, women as a group are disproportionately on the receiving end of improper workplace behaviour overwhelmingly perpetrated by men. And you can't address that dynamic without first acknowledging that it exists and putting words to it. And so, men as a group do this to women as a group and it has real-life ramifications for women. That doesn't mean we don't address what is happening to men. It's not a zero sum game. But it also means we can't ignore how gender is implicated in this discourse for women.
  - cheez 9y ago
    So the solution is what? To impose solutions on the individual who never would have done anything untoward anyway?
    - fruzz 9y ago
      Creating an online space that empower women, like Leap, is one example of a solution.
neveroffensive 9y ago
> A friend was asked out on dates, unsolicited, multiple times by coworkers. She just had to laugh it off. So long as the solicitation did not continue after it became apparent it was unwanted, this is just typical human social behavior, there is nothing wrong with it. > A friend reported sexualized posters of women up in the office. In the chat of my company, a sexualized video of women was passed around. This makes you uncomfortable, it dose not make everyone uncomfortable. Your subjective view of comfort will not always be meat. > I get misgendered at work by people who do it on purpose. I doubt you're actually being misgendered. There is a chance they are just being bullies, in which case that is an unfortunate aspect of life. More likely, they conceptualize gender as biological sex. Their conceptualization differs from yours. > I also get touched inappropriately by a coworker. This could be illegal depending on the nature, and is certainly against any/all HR policies. Either way this should be reported and dealt with.
whitemale 9y ago
> A colleague was groped. She didn't report it. What do you think should happen to people who grope other people? > A friend was asked out on dates, unsolicited, multiple times by coworkers. What's the alternative? How in your world are people supposed to date? > In all cases, what can you do to challenge these things without being seen as "the crazy one", "too sensitive", "party pooper", or whatever? I'm not implying that you are any of those things. Did you ever consider the possibility that maybe you are too sensitive? If you interact with a diverse group of people, they will do and say things that will offend you, such is life, the only way to avoid it is to ensure that you only interact with likeminded people. Expecting everyone to adhere to your values is tyranny.

by fruzz 9y ago

turinapple 9y ago

Thanks for sharing. Everytime I've tried to challenge others' behavior towards me, I've ended up the villain...

fruzz 9y ago
Yah. One thing I learned works are men who aren't recipient to the behaviour standing up. There was an employee like that at my last job who would speak up. Not forcefully. I was really appreciative of what he was doing. He was treated pretty awfully, and ended up quitting.

booleandilemma 9y ago

A friend was asked out on dates, unsolicited, multiple times by coworkers. I’m a geek and don’t know the first thing about dating, but doesn’t at least one of the parties involved need to receive an unsolicited request? Isn’t that how it works?

fruzz 9y ago
Work isn't the place to proposition people for a romantic relationship. At all times, but especially when there's a power dynamic. When that happens, along with a gazillion other little things women are disproportionately on the receiving end of, it has the effect of dissuading women from pursuing their career in the industry.
- cheez 9y ago
  This is wrongheaded. Work is a fine place to find partners because you are likely to be educated similarly and have similar life goals. You have to be mature in how you handle it though. One of the women I probably loved most in my life I met at work.
  - harlanji 9y ago
    Marriage creates a legal protection between partners which as far as I know is stronger than the employer/employee relationship, so the company is rational to be uncomfortable with such situations in competitive situations where court is plausible. Part of the big money game is playing by more restricted rules.
    - cheez 9y ago
      Sure, but finding partners at work is fine.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
ambivalents 9y ago
> A friend was asked out on dates, unsolicited, multiple times by coworkers. It's a little ambiguous in how this is worded whether the same person asked multiple times, or if it was multiple people each asking once. BUT in the former case especially, if you get turned down for a date please respect the other's wishes and do not keep trying, especially at work. It's not cute or charming, it's just disrespectful.

fortythirteen 9y ago

Disclaimer: not in any way attempting to diminish your experience. Only adding my own, to broaden the conversation. It can be a similar experience for men (although it's definitely not something talked about). I've had a female coworker walk up behind me repeatedly and give me unsolicited back rubs and ask me if I wanted to go to an empty office. I've been flirted with and hit on repeatedly. I've had a group of women at work, some of whom were in positions of power, socially shun me because I wasn't romantically interested in one of their friends, another coworker. Most of this happened when I was younger, and I probably would respond differently now that I have more experience (I just kept my mouth shut back then). But, I still can't help but feel that I wouldn't be taken as seriously by HR, because I'm a man. I'd like to see us move past the current narrative of "Men do this to Women" and get to a place where we recognize that People shouldn't do this to other People.

fruzz 9y ago
Those experiences are awful. I do not dispute that there are male victims, including in the workplace. I absolutely agree that "People shouldn't do this to other People". That said, women as a group are disproportionately on the receiving end of improper workplace behaviour overwhelmingly perpetrated by men. And you can't address that dynamic without first acknowledging that it exists and putting words to it. And so, men as a group do this to women as a group and it has real-life ramifications for women. That doesn't mean we don't address what is happening to men. It's not a zero sum game. But it also means we can't ignore how gender is implicated in this discourse for women.
- cheez 9y ago
  So the solution is what? To impose solutions on the individual who never would have done anything untoward anyway?
  - fruzz 9y ago
    Creating an online space that empower women, like Leap, is one example of a solution.

neveroffensive 9y ago

> A friend was asked out on dates, unsolicited, multiple times by coworkers. She just had to laugh it off. So long as the solicitation did not continue after it became apparent it was unwanted, this is just typical human social behavior, there is nothing wrong with it. > A friend reported sexualized posters of women up in the office. In the chat of my company, a sexualized video of women was passed around. This makes you uncomfortable, it dose not make everyone uncomfortable. Your subjective view of comfort will not always be meat. > I get misgendered at work by people who do it on purpose. I doubt you're actually being misgendered. There is a chance they are just being bullies, in which case that is an unfortunate aspect of life. More likely, they conceptualize gender as biological sex. Their conceptualization differs from yours. > I also get touched inappropriately by a coworker. This could be illegal depending on the nature, and is certainly against any/all HR policies. Either way this should be reported and dealt with.

whitemale 9y ago

> A colleague was groped. She didn't report it. What do you think should happen to people who grope other people? > A friend was asked out on dates, unsolicited, multiple times by coworkers. What's the alternative? How in your world are people supposed to date? > In all cases, what can you do to challenge these things without being seen as "the crazy one", "too sensitive", "party pooper", or whatever? I'm not implying that you are any of those things. Did you ever consider the possibility that maybe you are too sensitive? If you interact with a diverse group of people, they will do and say things that will offend you, such is life, the only way to avoid it is to ensure that you only interact with likeminded people. Expecting everyone to adhere to your values is tyranny.