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This - all things that can by done by SomethingSpecificCoin can be equally well done on smart contract platform ala Ethereum. There is no reason (except for re

This - all things that can by done by SomethingSpecificCoin can be equally well done on smart contract platform ala Ethereum. There is no reason (except for rewarding founders and early investors) someone who want to provide taxi rides own specialized mining equipment for maintaining blockchain of a proprietary coin. I rode a taxi few months ago, and I don't remember having to change my currency for a TaxiCoin which would be the only token the taxi driver accepts. In fact, it is illegal for him not to accept the national currency.

VMG 9y ago
It can be equally well done with a Postgres database.
- geezerjay 9y ago
  You can't sell postgres table inserts.
  - VMG 9y ago
    Yes you can. Google made a business out of it.
    - geezerjay 9y ago
      Show me where Google is selling each row update operation for $13k a pop.
- davidsong 9y ago
  And leave all the INSERTs and SELECTs to a trusted third party like Uber?
  - VMG 9y ago
    Works pretty well. If you want to minimize trust you can add signing, encryption and hash-chaining to your central database, but I doubt people actually care much about any of that.
  - nostrademons 9y ago
    The average person defines trust very differently than the average hacker, Hacker News reader, crypto-anarchist, or Ethereum developer. For the latter group, trust means that mathematically nothing can go wrong. Everything is cryptographically proven, and short of being able to factor large primes, there is no logical way for the protocol to result in an incorrect answer, and no central authority that can abuse its authority. For the average person, trust means nothing has gone wrong. When you first encounter a stranger, you open up a little bit, trust him with small secrets or small tasks, and see what happens. If she doesn't abuse that trust, you entrust her with progressively more vulnerability. Once someone or something has a long-time record of being in a place where they could have abused your trust but did not, they're considered "trustworthy". For many people, Uber is still a trusted third party. Ditto Facebook and Google. For most of the media, they're not, because Facebook and Google together fucked over most of the media in a pretty large way. But half of America - and much of the rest of the globe - doesn't trust the media anyway, because the media's story is unrepresentative of their own lived experience. The average person determines who to trust on their own, irrespective of what the math says. For them, the fact that Ethereum has been hacked even though mathematically it can't be hacked is a big strike against it - unless they have another reason to trust it, like having made a whole lot of money speculating in it.
  - UncleMeat 9y ago
    I mean, you are still running some client code you have to trust. People who want to take taxi rides aren't going to build their own client to interface with the taxi blockchain. What is the difference if the database is distributed instead of centralized?
mhb 9y ago
it is illegal for him not to accept the national currency According to the United States Department of the Treasury’s site[1], there is no federal law requiring that businesses accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. [1]https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Currency/Pages/legal-tender.aspx https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Currency/Pages...
- frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
  Yes but not accepting currency[0] or coins is different from not accepting USD. In the United States a creditor may choose to only accept certain forms of USD (ie. no $100 bills at some stores) but they still must accept USD in some form. [0] It is obvious from your link that the Treasury intends "currency" to be interpreted as paper money, see this: There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise.
  - mhb 9y ago
    I'd be interested in your reference. I think it's obvious that businesses aren't required to accept credit cards, checks, ACH transfers, whatever else. If they also aren't required to accept bills or coins, it would seem as though they don't need to accept payment in USD in any form. This creates a problem for them, but why do you think they must accept USD in some form?
    - krrrh 9y ago
      The policy is stated on every bill: “this note is legal tender for all debts, public and private" You can put your question in a search engine and find many references. Businesses in the US must accept dollars, but can choose what form they come in.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  post-service payment is a debt, taxi payment is usually post-service, and as your own link says “This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor”. The import of this is that such an offer (even if rejected) has a substantial impact on the creditors legal ability to pursue a debt.
IncRnd 9y ago
> In fact, it is illegal for him not to accept the national currency. What country are you referencing? It can't be the US. https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm Is it legal for a business in the United States to refuse cash as a form of payment? Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," states: "United States coins and currency [including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks] are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues." This statute means that all United States money as identified above is a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law which says otherwise.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- gamblor956 9y ago
  It's tricky, but this is generally interpreted to mean that while a business can choose not to accept cash/USD up-front for payment, they must accept USD to extinguish any debts (i.e., payment after the fact). This is because a non-standard form of payment must be agreed upon prior to the sale/service at issue.
  - IncRnd 9y ago
    That's exactly what it says. USD must be accepted for debts only.

VMG 9y ago

It can be equally well done with a Postgres database.

geezerjay 9y ago
You can't sell postgres table inserts.
- VMG 9y ago
  Yes you can. Google made a business out of it.
  - geezerjay 9y ago
    Show me where Google is selling each row update operation for $13k a pop.
davidsong 9y ago
And leave all the INSERTs and SELECTs to a trusted third party like Uber?
- VMG 9y ago
  Works pretty well. If you want to minimize trust you can add signing, encryption and hash-chaining to your central database, but I doubt people actually care much about any of that.
- nostrademons 9y ago
  The average person defines trust very differently than the average hacker, Hacker News reader, crypto-anarchist, or Ethereum developer. For the latter group, trust means that mathematically nothing can go wrong. Everything is cryptographically proven, and short of being able to factor large primes, there is no logical way for the protocol to result in an incorrect answer, and no central authority that can abuse its authority. For the average person, trust means nothing has gone wrong. When you first encounter a stranger, you open up a little bit, trust him with small secrets or small tasks, and see what happens. If she doesn't abuse that trust, you entrust her with progressively more vulnerability. Once someone or something has a long-time record of being in a place where they could have abused your trust but did not, they're considered "trustworthy". For many people, Uber is still a trusted third party. Ditto Facebook and Google. For most of the media, they're not, because Facebook and Google together fucked over most of the media in a pretty large way. But half of America - and much of the rest of the globe - doesn't trust the media anyway, because the media's story is unrepresentative of their own lived experience. The average person determines who to trust on their own, irrespective of what the math says. For them, the fact that Ethereum has been hacked even though mathematically it can't be hacked is a big strike against it - unless they have another reason to trust it, like having made a whole lot of money speculating in it.
- UncleMeat 9y ago
  I mean, you are still running some client code you have to trust. People who want to take taxi rides aren't going to build their own client to interface with the taxi blockchain. What is the difference if the database is distributed instead of centralized?

mhb 9y ago

it is illegal for him not to accept the national currency According to the United States Department of the Treasury’s site[1], there is no federal law requiring that businesses accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. [1]https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Currency/Pages/legal-tender.aspx https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Currency/Pages...

frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
Yes but not accepting currency[0] or coins is different from not accepting USD. In the United States a creditor may choose to only accept certain forms of USD (ie. no $100 bills at some stores) but they still must accept USD in some form. [0] It is obvious from your link that the Treasury intends "currency" to be interpreted as paper money, see this: There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise.
- mhb 9y ago
  I'd be interested in your reference. I think it's obvious that businesses aren't required to accept credit cards, checks, ACH transfers, whatever else. If they also aren't required to accept bills or coins, it would seem as though they don't need to accept payment in USD in any form. This creates a problem for them, but why do you think they must accept USD in some form?
  - krrrh 9y ago
    The policy is stated on every bill: “this note is legal tender for all debts, public and private" You can put your question in a search engine and find many references. Businesses in the US must accept dollars, but can choose what form they come in.
dragonwriter 9y ago
post-service payment is a debt, taxi payment is usually post-service, and as your own link says “This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor”. The import of this is that such an offer (even if rejected) has a substantial impact on the creditors legal ability to pursue a debt.

IncRnd 9y ago

> In fact, it is illegal for him not to accept the national currency. What country are you referencing? It can't be the US. https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm Is it legal for a business in the United States to refuse cash as a form of payment? Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," states: "United States coins and currency [including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks] are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues." This statute means that all United States money as identified above is a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law which says otherwise.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
gamblor956 9y ago
It's tricky, but this is generally interpreted to mean that while a business can choose not to accept cash/USD up-front for payment, they must accept USD to extinguish any debts (i.e., payment after the fact). This is because a non-standard form of payment must be agreed upon prior to the sale/service at issue.
- IncRnd 9y ago
  That's exactly what it says. USD must be accepted for debts only.