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I am really conflicted about this. On one hand, I think that it will provide a valuable resource for a large group of people, which is good! On the other hand,

I am really conflicted about this. On one hand, I think that it will provide a valuable resource for a large group of people, which is good! On the other hand, an online tech community designed solely for men would be met with hate and massive backlash. If equality is our goal, how will self-segregation help meet that goal?

kdelok 9y ago
Not involved with Leap at all, but I've always felt like this sort of thing depends on how much discrimination your group is subjected to. Self-segregation like this provides a forum for constructive discussion, particularly if your group is still subject to discrimination (e.g. being undermined by the dominant group, intentionally targeted by trolls, threatened or cajoled). I don't know if it's a useful analogy, but I consider it akin to global warming being discussed by climate scientists in a totally public forum. The volume of anti-global warming sentiment and media coverage (both for and against) would completely disrupt such attempts.
lynnetye 9y ago
While I understand this perspective, I also know that being a women in tech can feel incredibly lonely. Growing up, I was always comfortable being the only girl in a big group of guys. In fact, I still consider myself to be quite the tomboy. However, being the only woman in a room of 100 men at a meet-up can feel pretty isolating. (Especially when a dozen of them assume that I'm a recruiter. I'm not. I'm a web developer.) Many of my peers are the only woman on their >10-person engineering team. In my mind, Leap is a valuable resource for a not-large-enough group of people, and will hopefully contribute to growing the numbers of that group. Ps. There has already been discussion on Leap about inviting men to the community, and I'm sure it'll continue to be discussed! I don't think anyone wants to draw lines in the sand or create a "Us vs. Them" mentality. I do think everyone wants to have at least one person, one ally, in their corner though.
- sievebrain 9y ago
  What? Of course you want to draw lines in the sand and create an us Vs them mentality. That's the entire point of the large efforts you are making to exclude men. Don't deny reality. It doesn't help you or your ever more dubious "cause". You have created an explicitly sexist community.
  - dang 9y ago
    I'm happy to see that most comments in this thread have remained civil even when they disagree. This one, however, crosses into incivility and even personal attack. That breaks the HN guidelines and we ban accounts that do it. It also looks like you've been using HN primarily for ideological battle. That's an abuse of the site too. Please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow the rules if you want to keep commenting here.
ianwalter 9y ago
I am curious: have you spent a lot of time thinking about this or was this the first reaction that popped into your head?
- TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
  That is a good question, and I've thought about it a lot. There seems to be a growing group of people who think it's okay for minorities to discriminate against the majority in order to gain more power, but I'm just not convinced that it's the right way to correct social imbalances. I think that it would lead to everyone both in the majority and minority feeling persecuted. I think this would fuel and maintain hatred and disdain between groups instead of finding a way for everyone to thrive within a single group. If you disagree or see a flaw in my thinking, please let me know.
  - ianwalter 9y ago
    Cool, I disagree with your conclusions but it would be nice if there was a better way to correct social imbalances. They definitely don't seem to fix themselves!

kdelok 9y ago

Not involved with Leap at all, but I've always felt like this sort of thing depends on how much discrimination your group is subjected to. Self-segregation like this provides a forum for constructive discussion, particularly if your group is still subject to discrimination (e.g. being undermined by the dominant group, intentionally targeted by trolls, threatened or cajoled). I don't know if it's a useful analogy, but I consider it akin to global warming being discussed by climate scientists in a totally public forum. The volume of anti-global warming sentiment and media coverage (both for and against) would completely disrupt such attempts.

lynnetye 9y ago

While I understand this perspective, I also know that being a women in tech can feel incredibly lonely. Growing up, I was always comfortable being the only girl in a big group of guys. In fact, I still consider myself to be quite the tomboy. However, being the only woman in a room of 100 men at a meet-up can feel pretty isolating. (Especially when a dozen of them assume that I'm a recruiter. I'm not. I'm a web developer.) Many of my peers are the only woman on their >10-person engineering team. In my mind, Leap is a valuable resource for a not-large-enough group of people, and will hopefully contribute to growing the numbers of that group. Ps. There has already been discussion on Leap about inviting men to the community, and I'm sure it'll continue to be discussed! I don't think anyone wants to draw lines in the sand or create a "Us vs. Them" mentality. I do think everyone wants to have at least one person, one ally, in their corner though.

sievebrain 9y ago
What? Of course you want to draw lines in the sand and create an us Vs them mentality. That's the entire point of the large efforts you are making to exclude men. Don't deny reality. It doesn't help you or your ever more dubious "cause". You have created an explicitly sexist community.
- dang 9y ago
  I'm happy to see that most comments in this thread have remained civil even when they disagree. This one, however, crosses into incivility and even personal attack. That breaks the HN guidelines and we ban accounts that do it. It also looks like you've been using HN primarily for ideological battle. That's an abuse of the site too. Please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow the rules if you want to keep commenting here.

ianwalter 9y ago

I am curious: have you spent a lot of time thinking about this or was this the first reaction that popped into your head?

TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
That is a good question, and I've thought about it a lot. There seems to be a growing group of people who think it's okay for minorities to discriminate against the majority in order to gain more power, but I'm just not convinced that it's the right way to correct social imbalances. I think that it would lead to everyone both in the majority and minority feeling persecuted. I think this would fuel and maintain hatred and disdain between groups instead of finding a way for everyone to thrive within a single group. If you disagree or see a flaw in my thinking, please let me know.
- ianwalter 9y ago
  Cool, I disagree with your conclusions but it would be nice if there was a better way to correct social imbalances. They definitely don't seem to fix themselves!