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There was another Vox episode mentioning how manufacturers also heavily influenced our views on littering: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxKfpt70rLI https://w

There was another Vox episode mentioning how manufacturers also heavily influenced our views on littering: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxKfpt70rLI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxKfpt70rLI Suddenly that ecologically unsound packaging was no longer their problem; disposing of it properly was the consumer and the government's shared responsibility.

tedunangst 9y ago
In much the same way I'm happy we no longer empty chamber pots by heaving the contents out the front window, I don't really care where litter or rubbish comes from but I'd prefer it not pile up on the sidewalk.
- Cthulhu_ 9y ago
  Same, or that we have to dodge or wait for pedestrians when we're trying to get somewhere. I mean we do but only rarely if people abide by the laws / common sense.
  - jschwartzi 9y ago
    As a frequent pedestrian who also pays road taxes, I am also trying to get somewhere, and I don't appreciate all the times I've had to dodge cars while using a crosswalk. The stakes for me are much higher.
    - frabbit 9y ago
      Apart from the dodging, it's having to stand there waiting, while they womble past in their horseless carriage ... getting in my way.
      - ars 9y ago
        And you are getting in their way. There is a person in that car, so as far as who is more important it's equal both ways. Sometimes the person walking waits, sometimes the person in the car waits.
        frabbit 9y ago
        I don't think that it's just my biased perception that automobile traffic is favored in the timing of lights. Given the massive external costs racked up by feckless motorists on the rest of society it rankles.
- nxsynonym 9y ago
  The difference is that one is biologically unavoidable and the other is stubbornness in the name of saving production costs.
  - spaced-out 9y ago
    If someone ate an orange or banana and left the peel on a park bench, I'd still consider that littering.
    - nxsynonym 9y ago
      and? obviously I don't want heaps of chamber pot contents on the sidewalk either. The point I was making is that, yes all littering is bad, but why does the consumer shoulder the burden when a huge majority of packaging can be avoided?
      - Twisol 9y ago
        Not that I don't agree, but Sun Chips once made an attempt at 100% compostable packaging: http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/frito-scraps-loud-sunchips-bag/story?id=11806952 http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/frito-scraps-loud-sunchips-... (Warning, auto-playing video of loud bag sounds) They ended up discontinuing that attempt.
      - spaced-out 9y ago
        Can be avoided, but there's a cost. Wrapping food in plastic makes it easier, and thus cheaper to distribute, and vastly lowers the risk of foodborn illness. If you get rid of plastic packaging, the consumer will bear that cost in other ways. I agree that companies often avoid the negative externalities of their activities, and support things like a carbon tax to fix that. But in the case of littering, whoever creates the mess needs to clean it up.
        peterwwillis 9y ago
        How exactly does wrapping potatoes and bell peppers and cucumbers individually in plastic make it easier to distribute them? As far as illness goes, any number of steps along the food distribution chain can introduce pathogens, so they still have to be cleaned, separated, prepared and stored properly, regardless of plastic use. On the other hand, if you get rid of plastic packaging, the consumer will bear the benefit in other ways. A lack of plastic in the environment means a healthier ecosystem, which affects their food as well as their quality of life. But this is all a bit of a red herring because goods aren't packaged in so much plastic in order to reduce costs or improve quality. The single most important factor in consumer packaging is "Will this make the consumer want to buy it more".
appleiigs 9y ago
I can't watch the vid right now, but I don't see how it's not the consumer's responsibility of where they put their trash. It's also the consumer's responsibility to demand environmentally friendly packaging.
- konschubert 9y ago
  The most effective way to handle this is via federal laws.
  - appleiigs 9y ago
    I agree with you. Laws should reflect what society (collective individuals) want. It's all driven by individuals who should take responsibility, not say it's the corporation or government's fault.
  - IncRnd 9y ago
    Many people throughout history have found that when they push for laws for whatever they want, other people do the same thing. See any group of 3 presidential elections and the laws that were passed in the first year of a presidency. tl;dr Legislating for everyone to do what you want inevitably leads for others to legislate that you do what they want.

tedunangst 9y ago

In much the same way I'm happy we no longer empty chamber pots by heaving the contents out the front window, I don't really care where litter or rubbish comes from but I'd prefer it not pile up on the sidewalk.

Cthulhu_ 9y ago
Same, or that we have to dodge or wait for pedestrians when we're trying to get somewhere. I mean we do but only rarely if people abide by the laws / common sense.
- jschwartzi 9y ago
  As a frequent pedestrian who also pays road taxes, I am also trying to get somewhere, and I don't appreciate all the times I've had to dodge cars while using a crosswalk. The stakes for me are much higher.
  - frabbit 9y ago
    Apart from the dodging, it's having to stand there waiting, while they womble past in their horseless carriage ... getting in my way.
    - ars 9y ago
      And you are getting in their way. There is a person in that car, so as far as who is more important it's equal both ways. Sometimes the person walking waits, sometimes the person in the car waits.
      - frabbit 9y ago
        I don't think that it's just my biased perception that automobile traffic is favored in the timing of lights. Given the massive external costs racked up by feckless motorists on the rest of society it rankles.
nxsynonym 9y ago
The difference is that one is biologically unavoidable and the other is stubbornness in the name of saving production costs.
- spaced-out 9y ago
  If someone ate an orange or banana and left the peel on a park bench, I'd still consider that littering.
  - nxsynonym 9y ago
    and? obviously I don't want heaps of chamber pot contents on the sidewalk either. The point I was making is that, yes all littering is bad, but why does the consumer shoulder the burden when a huge majority of packaging can be avoided?
    - Twisol 9y ago
      Not that I don't agree, but Sun Chips once made an attempt at 100% compostable packaging: http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/frito-scraps-loud-sunchips-bag/story?id=11806952 http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/frito-scraps-loud-sunchips-... (Warning, auto-playing video of loud bag sounds) They ended up discontinuing that attempt.
    - spaced-out 9y ago
      Can be avoided, but there's a cost. Wrapping food in plastic makes it easier, and thus cheaper to distribute, and vastly lowers the risk of foodborn illness. If you get rid of plastic packaging, the consumer will bear that cost in other ways. I agree that companies often avoid the negative externalities of their activities, and support things like a carbon tax to fix that. But in the case of littering, whoever creates the mess needs to clean it up.
      - peterwwillis 9y ago
        How exactly does wrapping potatoes and bell peppers and cucumbers individually in plastic make it easier to distribute them? As far as illness goes, any number of steps along the food distribution chain can introduce pathogens, so they still have to be cleaned, separated, prepared and stored properly, regardless of plastic use. On the other hand, if you get rid of plastic packaging, the consumer will bear the benefit in other ways. A lack of plastic in the environment means a healthier ecosystem, which affects their food as well as their quality of life. But this is all a bit of a red herring because goods aren't packaged in so much plastic in order to reduce costs or improve quality. The single most important factor in consumer packaging is "Will this make the consumer want to buy it more".

appleiigs 9y ago

I can't watch the vid right now, but I don't see how it's not the consumer's responsibility of where they put their trash. It's also the consumer's responsibility to demand environmentally friendly packaging.

konschubert 9y ago
The most effective way to handle this is via federal laws.
- appleiigs 9y ago
  I agree with you. Laws should reflect what society (collective individuals) want. It's all driven by individuals who should take responsibility, not say it's the corporation or government's fault.
- IncRnd 9y ago
  Many people throughout history have found that when they push for laws for whatever they want, other people do the same thing. See any group of 3 presidential elections and the laws that were passed in the first year of a presidency. tl;dr Legislating for everyone to do what you want inevitably leads for others to legislate that you do what they want.