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What i would like to know is did it actually reduce deaths?

by lawlessone 9y ago

virgilp 9y ago
As a percentage of "miles traveled by car"? Absolutely.
- craftyguy 9y ago
  Source?
  - ChrisLomont 9y ago
    The graph in the picture showed 16K deaths in 1923, for a US population of 111M then, with likely much smaller per capita driving miles than now. Now population is 323M, and there are around 5K pedestrian/car deaths annually [1]. We drive around 3 trillion miles annually[2]. If you can find the total or per capita miles driven in 1923, I think that would make the data complete. But it seems quite clear pedestrian deaths are vastly lower now than in 1923. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/pedestrian_safety/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/pedestrian_safety/ind... [2] https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/pressroom/fhwa1704.cfm https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/pressroom/fhwa1704.cfm
    - poslathian 9y ago
      Just to be clear, and I don’t think you said otherwise, that 5k number is only pedestrian deaths. In 2016 there were 37,000 fatalities from motor vehicle crashes. The figure in the article is similarly reporting all automotive fatalities. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths...
      - ChrisLomont 9y ago
        > Just to be clear, and I don’t think you said otherwise, that 5k number is only pedestrian deaths I clearly wrote "pedestrian/car deaths" and linked to a source that clearly explained it. I'm not sure how else to put it. Here's a better answer [1]: 21 fatalities per 100M vehicle miles of travel in 1923 to 1.36 in 2007. That should completely answer the request for a source. [1] https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2007/pdf/fi200.pdf https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2007/p...
    - Steltek 9y ago
      It's worth noting that this is /pedestrian/ deaths from cars. Total motor vehicle deaths are around 40k a year in the US.
      - ChrisLomont 9y ago
        Yes, and the rate has decreased a lot since 1923, as the OP claimed [1]: 21 fatalities per 100M vehicle miles of travel in 1923 to 1.36 in 2007. [1] https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2007/pdf/fi200.pdf https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2007/p...
andys627 9y ago
Maybe from cars hitting people - but how about death from obesity and environmental degradation of suburban auto-oriented lifestyle as compared to urban walkable/transit oriented lifestyle.
- dsfyu404ed 9y ago
  There have been massive increases in quality of life as a result of cheaper, faster transportation of people and goods. Anything can be made to look like a massive net negative with the one-sided comparison that it's fashionable to apply to cars, social conservatives, and a handful of other topics around here.
  - andys627 9y ago
    Both points definitely true. I guess my argument is you can accomplish the same (probably more?) massive increase in quality of life without the suburban auto dependent monoculture. Look at quality of life (especially with regard to ease of mobility) of some bike infrastructure leaders like Copenhagen versus SF Bay Area where you pretty much have to own a car.

What i would like to know is did it actually reduce deaths?

virgilp 9y ago

As a percentage of "miles traveled by car"? Absolutely.

craftyguy 9y ago
Source?
- ChrisLomont 9y ago
  The graph in the picture showed 16K deaths in 1923, for a US population of 111M then, with likely much smaller per capita driving miles than now. Now population is 323M, and there are around 5K pedestrian/car deaths annually [1]. We drive around 3 trillion miles annually[2]. If you can find the total or per capita miles driven in 1923, I think that would make the data complete. But it seems quite clear pedestrian deaths are vastly lower now than in 1923. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/pedestrian_safety/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/pedestrian_safety/ind... [2] https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/pressroom/fhwa1704.cfm https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/pressroom/fhwa1704.cfm
  - poslathian 9y ago
    Just to be clear, and I don’t think you said otherwise, that 5k number is only pedestrian deaths. In 2016 there were 37,000 fatalities from motor vehicle crashes. The figure in the article is similarly reporting all automotive fatalities. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths...
    - ChrisLomont 9y ago
      > Just to be clear, and I don’t think you said otherwise, that 5k number is only pedestrian deaths I clearly wrote "pedestrian/car deaths" and linked to a source that clearly explained it. I'm not sure how else to put it. Here's a better answer [1]: 21 fatalities per 100M vehicle miles of travel in 1923 to 1.36 in 2007. That should completely answer the request for a source. [1] https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2007/pdf/fi200.pdf https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2007/p...
  - Steltek 9y ago
    It's worth noting that this is /pedestrian/ deaths from cars. Total motor vehicle deaths are around 40k a year in the US.
    - ChrisLomont 9y ago
      Yes, and the rate has decreased a lot since 1923, as the OP claimed [1]: 21 fatalities per 100M vehicle miles of travel in 1923 to 1.36 in 2007. [1] https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2007/pdf/fi200.pdf https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2007/p...

andys627 9y ago

Maybe from cars hitting people - but how about death from obesity and environmental degradation of suburban auto-oriented lifestyle as compared to urban walkable/transit oriented lifestyle.

dsfyu404ed 9y ago
There have been massive increases in quality of life as a result of cheaper, faster transportation of people and goods. Anything can be made to look like a massive net negative with the one-sided comparison that it's fashionable to apply to cars, social conservatives, and a handful of other topics around here.
- andys627 9y ago
  Both points definitely true. I guess my argument is you can accomplish the same (probably more?) massive increase in quality of life without the suburban auto dependent monoculture. Look at quality of life (especially with regard to ease of mobility) of some bike infrastructure leaders like Copenhagen versus SF Bay Area where you pretty much have to own a car.