4 ms·

seems like you've heard the term and quickly decided that it describes something unsolvable in principle. the truth is, that NP-hardness is only true for perfe

seems like you've heard the term and quickly decided that it describes something unsolvable in principle. the truth is, that NP-hardness is only true for perfect solution in polynomial time. good-enough solutions can be found in finite time intervals just fine, there are plenty of practical implementations of that. ever heard of this thing called "delivery companies"? well they solve TSP sub-optimally millions of times every day. shocker, i know.

0wing 9y ago
Right... except the internet is not a physical space so tell me how do you measure distance between nodes? Latency? Let's look at the Lightening network white paper: 8.4 Payment Routing It is theoretically possible to build a route map implicitly from observing 2-of-2 multisigs on the blockchain to build a routing table. Note, however, this is not feasible with pay-to-script-hash transaction outputs, which can be resolved out-of-band from the bitcoin protocol via a third party routing service. Building a routing table will become necessary for large operators (e.g. BGP, Cjdns). Eventually, with optimizations, the network will look a lot like the correspondent banking network, or Tier-1 ISPs. So LN cites the need for large liquidity providers to act as hubs, essentially payment processor hubs. Why not just use venmo at that point? Why would someone want to use Bitcoin with the LN, especially if it requires them buying Bitcoin from someone else?
- keymone 9y ago
  Unsurprisingly your reply has nothing to do with your original speculation that LN can’t work because of TSP.
  - 0wing 9y ago
    ??? The routing problem of internet nodes: the internet is not a physical space so tell me how do you measure distance between nodes? To which you have no answer. As stated in the OP: LN can't solve the TSP without either publishing a map of all nodes and routes, or having all nodes broadcasts to all nodes. Unsurprisingly you didn't read the original post, nor contribute any response to the critique or technical implementation of routing in the LN design. LN relies on hubs and a map. It's setup to extract wealth into centralized liquidity providers. This is antithetical to cash, and at this point why not use a faster centralized service like venmo?
    - keymone 9y ago
      > the internet is not a physical space so tell me how do you measure distance between nodes? You’re the one that claimed connection to TSP, you tell me.
      - 0wing 9y ago
        Your posts contribute nothing. Shortest path requires publishing all nodes and connections. What if nodes go offline? How fast will the LN algorithm reroute? Does this mean everyone must connect to the Winkevoss/Bitmain/WellsFargo Nodes for payments? Why would anyone bother dealing in Bitcoin when there's other usable alternatives, faster cryptocurrencies, or just paypal/venmo?

0wing 9y ago

Right... except the internet is not a physical space so tell me how do you measure distance between nodes? Latency? Let's look at the Lightening network white paper: 8.4 Payment Routing It is theoretically possible to build a route map implicitly from observing 2-of-2 multisigs on the blockchain to build a routing table. Note, however, this is not feasible with pay-to-script-hash transaction outputs, which can be resolved out-of-band from the bitcoin protocol via a third party routing service. Building a routing table will become necessary for large operators (e.g. BGP, Cjdns). Eventually, with optimizations, the network will look a lot like the correspondent banking network, or Tier-1 ISPs. So LN cites the need for large liquidity providers to act as hubs, essentially payment processor hubs. Why not just use venmo at that point? Why would someone want to use Bitcoin with the LN, especially if it requires them buying Bitcoin from someone else?

keymone 9y ago
Unsurprisingly your reply has nothing to do with your original speculation that LN can’t work because of TSP.
- 0wing 9y ago
  ??? The routing problem of internet nodes: the internet is not a physical space so tell me how do you measure distance between nodes? To which you have no answer. As stated in the OP: LN can't solve the TSP without either publishing a map of all nodes and routes, or having all nodes broadcasts to all nodes. Unsurprisingly you didn't read the original post, nor contribute any response to the critique or technical implementation of routing in the LN design. LN relies on hubs and a map. It's setup to extract wealth into centralized liquidity providers. This is antithetical to cash, and at this point why not use a faster centralized service like venmo?
  - keymone 9y ago
    > the internet is not a physical space so tell me how do you measure distance between nodes? You’re the one that claimed connection to TSP, you tell me.
    - 0wing 9y ago
      Your posts contribute nothing. Shortest path requires publishing all nodes and connections. What if nodes go offline? How fast will the LN algorithm reroute? Does this mean everyone must connect to the Winkevoss/Bitmain/WellsFargo Nodes for payments? Why would anyone bother dealing in Bitcoin when there's other usable alternatives, faster cryptocurrencies, or just paypal/venmo?