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No I am saying that bitcoin is bitcoin with it's own unique history and that there only will be a set amount of those bitcoins. That makes it scarce. It's not j

No I am saying that bitcoin is bitcoin with it's own unique history and that there only will be a set amount of those bitcoins. That makes it scarce. It's not just first mover advantage it's the advantage of the history and the money now put behind it that makes it valuable. What you and many other people seem to be confusing is that Bitcoin the protocol isn't what's valuable. It's the ability to turn it into a physical like property. The value of gold can dissapear too overnight. Same rules apply. Gold can be obsolete and just because it historically have had value does not mean it will always have that.

Nursie 9y ago
It has first mover advantage and a brand name. That's literally all the distinguishes it from clone coins. There being a set amount is only relevant in that context.
- ThomPete 9y ago
  No, it's not all that distinguishes it from clone coins. Bitcoin has a unique history and a unique set of backers, current and future utility and more trust than any other cryptocurrency. None of the other coins have that. Your argument is like saying that the only thing that distinguishes the USD from the drakmar is branding. There is always a reason why something have a value and people trust it. The value of that trust can appear and disappear from one day to the other with anything we consider valuable, just think of Diamonds as a great example of something that is suddenly worth a lot. Humans decide the value, the market decides the claimed "intrinsic value" the market have determined the value of bitcoin.
  - Nursie 9y ago
    It has no more utility than a direct clone. None whatsoever. It's a nonsense claim to say it has more than any other - it has less uility than most! Many of the alts added many new capabilities. The US Dollar is supported by a government that will help adjust supply, interest rates etc to keep its value roughly stable and it's utility in place. By design Bitcoin has none of this stuff. I'm not making arguments about intrinsic value, I am saying that the value of BTC is built on sand much more than a national currency, and it's limited supply street cred is no sort of guarantee, based as it is on brand.
    - ThomPete 9y ago
      US dollar is supported by a government (or more precisely a central bank) just like Greece and Venezuela is. But who supports the government? A government can default. The USD can default. It is only in very recent times that currencies have been stable (at the cost of having to grow the economy to beat the inflation) historically they haven't. Just ask the Germans in the 30ies. It's an illusion to think that just because a government is behind a currency it's exempt from loosing all it's value. The lender of last resort is the government but governments can fail. Just because they are stable today does not make them stable tomorrow. Bitcoin has more utility than a clone because it has a unique history and a unique set of backers (the network) and those backers have exactly the same function as they state. Bitcoin is better supported than some currencies and worse supported than others. But it exist in that spectrum not separate from it.
      - Nursie 9y ago
        I didn't say it's exempt from losing value, however we have some fairly good means of trying to ensure that doesn't happen, which have been relatively successful of late. With Cryptocurrencies there are none, by design. >> Bitcoin has more utility than a clone because it has a unique history and a unique set of backers (the network) and those backers have exactly the same function as they state. This is utter nonsense, backers have none of the power of the state to alter supply, set rates etc etc. >> Bitcoin is better supported than some currencies and worse supported than others. But it exist in that spectrum not separate from it. Well, given the fees, processing times, lack of support mechanisms and transaction processing limits, I'd say it's a damn poor one.
        ThomPete 9y ago
        No it's not nonsense at all. A country can default no matter the intentions and attempts of it's government. There is always a reality. That same reality plays out differently with bitcoin compared to the USD but fundamentally there is no absolute base for either currency nor bitcoin. And history is littered with examples of this.
- sethgecko 9y ago
  What distinguishes from the clone coins is its dev team.
  - Nursie 9y ago
    Only if clones don't get to re-use the output of the dev team. Which they do.

Nursie 9y ago

It has first mover advantage and a brand name. That's literally all the distinguishes it from clone coins. There being a set amount is only relevant in that context.

ThomPete 9y ago
No, it's not all that distinguishes it from clone coins. Bitcoin has a unique history and a unique set of backers, current and future utility and more trust than any other cryptocurrency. None of the other coins have that. Your argument is like saying that the only thing that distinguishes the USD from the drakmar is branding. There is always a reason why something have a value and people trust it. The value of that trust can appear and disappear from one day to the other with anything we consider valuable, just think of Diamonds as a great example of something that is suddenly worth a lot. Humans decide the value, the market decides the claimed "intrinsic value" the market have determined the value of bitcoin.
- Nursie 9y ago
  It has no more utility than a direct clone. None whatsoever. It's a nonsense claim to say it has more than any other - it has less uility than most! Many of the alts added many new capabilities. The US Dollar is supported by a government that will help adjust supply, interest rates etc to keep its value roughly stable and it's utility in place. By design Bitcoin has none of this stuff. I'm not making arguments about intrinsic value, I am saying that the value of BTC is built on sand much more than a national currency, and it's limited supply street cred is no sort of guarantee, based as it is on brand.
  - ThomPete 9y ago
    US dollar is supported by a government (or more precisely a central bank) just like Greece and Venezuela is. But who supports the government? A government can default. The USD can default. It is only in very recent times that currencies have been stable (at the cost of having to grow the economy to beat the inflation) historically they haven't. Just ask the Germans in the 30ies. It's an illusion to think that just because a government is behind a currency it's exempt from loosing all it's value. The lender of last resort is the government but governments can fail. Just because they are stable today does not make them stable tomorrow. Bitcoin has more utility than a clone because it has a unique history and a unique set of backers (the network) and those backers have exactly the same function as they state. Bitcoin is better supported than some currencies and worse supported than others. But it exist in that spectrum not separate from it.
    - Nursie 9y ago
      I didn't say it's exempt from losing value, however we have some fairly good means of trying to ensure that doesn't happen, which have been relatively successful of late. With Cryptocurrencies there are none, by design. >> Bitcoin has more utility than a clone because it has a unique history and a unique set of backers (the network) and those backers have exactly the same function as they state. This is utter nonsense, backers have none of the power of the state to alter supply, set rates etc etc. >> Bitcoin is better supported than some currencies and worse supported than others. But it exist in that spectrum not separate from it. Well, given the fees, processing times, lack of support mechanisms and transaction processing limits, I'd say it's a damn poor one.
      - ThomPete 9y ago
        No it's not nonsense at all. A country can default no matter the intentions and attempts of it's government. There is always a reality. That same reality plays out differently with bitcoin compared to the USD but fundamentally there is no absolute base for either currency nor bitcoin. And history is littered with examples of this.
sethgecko 9y ago
What distinguishes from the clone coins is its dev team.
- Nursie 9y ago
  Only if clones don't get to re-use the output of the dev team. Which they do.