5 ms·

> what is it with sysadmins maintaining large scripts while at the same time quipping that they are not programmers? We've met some programmers, and don't want

by geocar 9y ago

> what is it with sysadmins maintaining large scripts while at the same time quipping that they are not programmers? We've met some programmers, and don't want to be compared to that[1]. Seriously. Programmers will embark on some massive mission that Apache and dumb CGIs can do[2] Programmers will justify their slow software by saying it's readable, or by saying that the JIRA ticket didn't specify how fast the solution needed to be. Programmers will make user interfaces that require clicking multiple times to find some bug, then require the report tediously repeat those clicks, complain that the bug report wasn't accurate (can't find a button that says "OK" when it says "Close", and there's no other buttons). Programmers will actually shit in the pool, and say it improves readability. Seriously: I have seen programmers delete perfectly working code and replace it with something broken (especially on the edge cases) and then ask the sysadmin team to wake up at 3am to restart their software every night. Code that was working fine for years. Code that wasn't even in their project. Fuck that. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16155641 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16155641 [2]: http://marcio.io/2015/07/handling-1-million-requests-per-minute-with-golang/ http://marcio.io/2015/07/handling-1-million-requests-per-min...

majewsky 9y ago
What you mean is not "programmer", but "software engineer". Everyone who introduces themselves as a "software engineer" to me starts with -100 points on the scorecard in my mind, because that's exactly the sort of people you're talking about.
- geocar 9y ago
  I program. I’m not a “programmer”. I do lots of other things l, like make sure my software works, and make sure the users are successful with it — but I don’t know what that job title is. “I print money for my employer” seems a little OTT...
  - ams6110 9y ago
    Software developer
    - geocar 9y ago
      I also sell, do marketing, technical writing, negotiate with vendors, manage multiple product roadmaps, manage teams of people who program, manage servers and networks, manage sysadmins, cook, and so on. But because I was also AS21863 for a decade, I've always been a sysadmin who programs, and not a "programmer" who runs a network (and does these other things). But this isn't really about my job title. The point is that I've been programming for over three decades, and over time this skill became just one of many things that I do. "Programmers", are people where that's all they do, so they look to solve problems with more programming. Wanting to call them "software engineer" or "software developer" or "potato" anything else doesn't matter to me.
agumonkey 9y ago
this is probably regular, but I'm not praising "programmers" like that, just to be clear. rewriting for the sake of it, with regression is plain bad also just in case, I'm not saying sysadmin are lower; but their job is not to learn about programming languages and paradigm, so they don't know what goes on there. Now, that they can make good programs, sure. Having sound logic is not limited to "programmers".

by geocar 9y ago

majewsky 9y ago

What you mean is not "programmer", but "software engineer". Everyone who introduces themselves as a "software engineer" to me starts with -100 points on the scorecard in my mind, because that's exactly the sort of people you're talking about.

geocar 9y ago
I program. I’m not a “programmer”. I do lots of other things l, like make sure my software works, and make sure the users are successful with it — but I don’t know what that job title is. “I print money for my employer” seems a little OTT...
- ams6110 9y ago
  Software developer
  - geocar 9y ago
    I also sell, do marketing, technical writing, negotiate with vendors, manage multiple product roadmaps, manage teams of people who program, manage servers and networks, manage sysadmins, cook, and so on. But because I was also AS21863 for a decade, I've always been a sysadmin who programs, and not a "programmer" who runs a network (and does these other things). But this isn't really about my job title. The point is that I've been programming for over three decades, and over time this skill became just one of many things that I do. "Programmers", are people where that's all they do, so they look to solve problems with more programming. Wanting to call them "software engineer" or "software developer" or "potato" anything else doesn't matter to me.

agumonkey 9y ago

this is probably regular, but I'm not praising "programmers" like that, just to be clear. rewriting for the sake of it, with regression is plain bad also just in case, I'm not saying sysadmin are lower; but their job is not to learn about programming languages and paradigm, so they don't know what goes on there. Now, that they can make good programs, sure. Having sound logic is not limited to "programmers".