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No: in other countries, they wouldn't send trigger-happy ninjas based solely on a dubious phone call. In the few worse cases, it will mean some lost time, beca

by fab13n 9y ago

No: in other countries, they wouldn't send trigger-happy ninjas based solely on a dubious phone call. In the few worse cases, it will mean some lost time, because the first responder cops will have to wait for assault teams. But in the 95% cases were a SWAT team wasn't need, it prevents unnecessarily violence escalation. And there are many more lives saved by non-escalation than lives lost to intervention delays. Also, SWAT teams are considered elite forces (almost?) everywhere; but in some countries, elitism is based on sharpshooting abilities, in some others it's based on good judgement, clear-headedness and restrain.

DoreenMichele 9y ago
My reply is to this: One reason swatting is not done so much in Europe Swatting is the act of making the prank call. It has nothing to do with how the SWAT team handles it. Nowhere have I argued that European police wouldn't have handled it better. That is a completely separate question from the question of how often these calls get made and why.
- watwut 9y ago
  It has a lot to do with how police react. It is done to elicit aggressive response to punish victim for whatever. It was not done for fun here.
  - DoreenMichele 9y ago
    My position is that the caller needs to be held responsible. If you agree that it was not done for fun, then I really don't know why you are arguing with me at all. Everything you have said agrees that the caller acted with malice aforethought. I cannot comprehend how you think that justifies letting him off the hook. General police violence in the US is not a justification for saying the caller should not be held responsible for their part in this.
    - watwut 9y ago
      It does not matter whather you punish him or how much all that much. The root cause is how police systematically reacts, how afraid they are and how little they value citizens lives. I don't see people saying he should not be punished. They say that cops needs to change. Focusing on his punishment is like adding yet another hack into badly engineered system - it makes people feel good and makes one bug go away, but it does nothing to address root cause which is bad system.
      - DoreenMichele 9y ago
        Look, I quoted what I was responding to, which was someone saying that the guilt of this guy was essentially irrelevant. They have since changed their remark. Me asserting that it isn't okay to let him off the hook is not the same as me saying the system as a whole is fine and does not need reform. Arguing with me from that angle amounts to putting words in my mouth.
- fab13n 9y ago
  If you swat in most of Europe, all you'll get is a police patrol ring at the victim's doorbell, and politely enquire about the situation. That's pretty anti-climatic, as a prank, and that's why nobody will bother making it.
  - DoreenMichele 9y ago
    For like the umpteenth time in this discussion: How on earth is that justification for not holding the caller responsible for their role in this death?

by fab13n 9y ago

DoreenMichele 9y ago

My reply is to this: One reason swatting is not done so much in Europe Swatting is the act of making the prank call. It has nothing to do with how the SWAT team handles it. Nowhere have I argued that European police wouldn't have handled it better. That is a completely separate question from the question of how often these calls get made and why.

watwut 9y ago
It has a lot to do with how police react. It is done to elicit aggressive response to punish victim for whatever. It was not done for fun here.
- DoreenMichele 9y ago
  My position is that the caller needs to be held responsible. If you agree that it was not done for fun, then I really don't know why you are arguing with me at all. Everything you have said agrees that the caller acted with malice aforethought. I cannot comprehend how you think that justifies letting him off the hook. General police violence in the US is not a justification for saying the caller should not be held responsible for their part in this.
  - watwut 9y ago
    It does not matter whather you punish him or how much all that much. The root cause is how police systematically reacts, how afraid they are and how little they value citizens lives. I don't see people saying he should not be punished. They say that cops needs to change. Focusing on his punishment is like adding yet another hack into badly engineered system - it makes people feel good and makes one bug go away, but it does nothing to address root cause which is bad system.
    - DoreenMichele 9y ago
      Look, I quoted what I was responding to, which was someone saying that the guilt of this guy was essentially irrelevant. They have since changed their remark. Me asserting that it isn't okay to let him off the hook is not the same as me saying the system as a whole is fine and does not need reform. Arguing with me from that angle amounts to putting words in my mouth.
fab13n 9y ago
If you swat in most of Europe, all you'll get is a police patrol ring at the victim's doorbell, and politely enquire about the situation. That's pretty anti-climatic, as a prank, and that's why nobody will bother making it.
- DoreenMichele 9y ago
  For like the umpteenth time in this discussion: How on earth is that justification for not holding the caller responsible for their role in this death?