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> I get rather tired of blow hard Europeans imagining they know what is best for internal matters of the US I guess we could try to hide our empathy, after all

by jopsen 9y ago

> I get rather tired of blow hard Europeans imagining they know what is best for internal matters of the US I guess we could try to hide our empathy, after all if it's only Americans killing other Americans, who cares? I don't get the impression that Americans do.

DoreenMichele 9y ago
Yes, do that. And while you are it, spare me your sarcasm, superiority complex and contempt. Thank you.
- jopsen 9y ago
  Will you also stop killing non-americans then? After all, they didn't vote for drone strikes.
  - DoreenMichele 9y ago
    I genuinely don't understand how you can be both so hostile and so certain of your moral superiority. Your so called empathy was abandoned rather rapidly for revealing your true opinion that Americans simply deserve to be wholesale demonized. It isn't like I don't want these problems resolved. I don't believe I go around announcing what is best for other countries. Such behavior does not foster good discussion.
    - jopsen 9y ago
      I don't think Americans should be demonized... Having met a lot of you, I know you're not all crazy. So yeah, I'm obviously being a little provocative :) But I do something wonder if you just don't want the problems solved? The solutions seems obvious, and yet you keep getting side tracked, like blaming the prankster. Other than police training and changes in behavior, what real solutions do you see?
      - DoreenMichele 9y ago
        In this specific case, holding the caller responsible. When someone goes out of their way to hide the origin of the call using special equipment, that is not the same as some dumb 10 year old being handed the phone and dared to dial 911 and make something up. The fact that the US has a general problem with police shootings is absolutely not a reason to let the caller off the hook. If anything, it is a reason to argue that he reasonably knew this could result in someone's death, so the charge should be more serious than manslaughter.
        jopsen 9y ago
        > The fact that the US has a general problem with police shootings is absolutely not a reason to let the caller off the hook. If anything, it is a reason to argue.... This means proving that it is foreseeable that the police would arbitrarily shoot people, when called to an incident. I guess it would be poetic Justice if the prosecutor used this case to prove why the police should be disbanded. If indiscriminate killing is an expected outcome from calling the police, what purpose do they serve?
        DoreenMichele 9y ago
        Deescalation is complicated, especially when you are talking an entire nation. It does not help the matter to say that the caller is not responsible because the police are so bad. I have had a class in conflict management. It never helps to increasingly vilify one side and say that anything goes for the other because of it. That seems to be the gist of the argument most people here are making. It doesn't work, so that isn't how you gradually create less conflict in the US. But rationality is seemingly not welcome here. Everyone wants to just crucify the police. So I think I need to just bow out here.
Turing_Machine 9y ago
Or maybe you could at least wait until the 80 million or so Europeans murdered by their own governments in the last century fade from living memory. 60 million from Stalin, 20 million from Hitler, smaller numbers from lesser murderers --Franco, Mussolini, Kadar, Honecker, Ceaucescu, etc. -- plus the occasional freelance genocide, such as the troubles in the Balkans. Note that this isn't counting the Europeans killed by wars between countries, only those killed by their own government or quasi-government entities. About 400 Americans are killed by cops every year. At that rate, we'll surpass the European 20th century toll for being murdered by one's own government in about 200,000 years.

by jopsen 9y ago

DoreenMichele 9y ago

Yes, do that. And while you are it, spare me your sarcasm, superiority complex and contempt. Thank you.

jopsen 9y ago
Will you also stop killing non-americans then? After all, they didn't vote for drone strikes.
- DoreenMichele 9y ago
  I genuinely don't understand how you can be both so hostile and so certain of your moral superiority. Your so called empathy was abandoned rather rapidly for revealing your true opinion that Americans simply deserve to be wholesale demonized. It isn't like I don't want these problems resolved. I don't believe I go around announcing what is best for other countries. Such behavior does not foster good discussion.
  - jopsen 9y ago
    I don't think Americans should be demonized... Having met a lot of you, I know you're not all crazy. So yeah, I'm obviously being a little provocative :) But I do something wonder if you just don't want the problems solved? The solutions seems obvious, and yet you keep getting side tracked, like blaming the prankster. Other than police training and changes in behavior, what real solutions do you see?
    - DoreenMichele 9y ago
      In this specific case, holding the caller responsible. When someone goes out of their way to hide the origin of the call using special equipment, that is not the same as some dumb 10 year old being handed the phone and dared to dial 911 and make something up. The fact that the US has a general problem with police shootings is absolutely not a reason to let the caller off the hook. If anything, it is a reason to argue that he reasonably knew this could result in someone's death, so the charge should be more serious than manslaughter.
      - jopsen 9y ago
        > The fact that the US has a general problem with police shootings is absolutely not a reason to let the caller off the hook. If anything, it is a reason to argue.... This means proving that it is foreseeable that the police would arbitrarily shoot people, when called to an incident. I guess it would be poetic Justice if the prosecutor used this case to prove why the police should be disbanded. If indiscriminate killing is an expected outcome from calling the police, what purpose do they serve?
        DoreenMichele 9y ago
        Deescalation is complicated, especially when you are talking an entire nation. It does not help the matter to say that the caller is not responsible because the police are so bad. I have had a class in conflict management. It never helps to increasingly vilify one side and say that anything goes for the other because of it. That seems to be the gist of the argument most people here are making. It doesn't work, so that isn't how you gradually create less conflict in the US. But rationality is seemingly not welcome here. Everyone wants to just crucify the police. So I think I need to just bow out here.

Turing_Machine 9y ago

Or maybe you could at least wait until the 80 million or so Europeans murdered by their own governments in the last century fade from living memory. 60 million from Stalin, 20 million from Hitler, smaller numbers from lesser murderers --Franco, Mussolini, Kadar, Honecker, Ceaucescu, etc. -- plus the occasional freelance genocide, such as the troubles in the Balkans. Note that this isn't counting the Europeans killed by wars between countries, only those killed by their own government or quasi-government entities. About 400 Americans are killed by cops every year. At that rate, we'll surpass the European 20th century toll for being murdered by one's own government in about 200,000 years.