5 ms·

A confluence of factors: 1. China cracking down harder: https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2018/01/16/business/16reuters-china-bitcoin.html?partner=IFTTT https://

A confluence of factors: 1. China cracking down harder: https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2018/01/16/business/16reuters-china-bitcoin.html?partner=IFTTT https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2018/01/16/business/16reuter... 2. South Korea cut off access to banks by cryptocurrency exchanges in December, and access to exchanges by foreign traders. As a result the prices in the country spiked, and the largest price aggregator CoinMarketCap removed Korean exchanges from the index because they were skewing the averages. This caused ~$150B to appear to have suddenly vanished, gapping prices down. This is when the sell-off began in earnest. Then recently the South Korean Minister of Justice said he wants to shut down exchanges, but then the PM says that would require a vote in the National Assembly on new legislation. They are consulting with Japan (who are positive on crypto) and China (who are not) to create a new regulatory framework. http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20180116000817 http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20180116000817 3. Indonesia just banned cryptocurrency transactions, stating only their native currency is legal tender. http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2018/01/15/bank-indonesia-police-prevent-bitcoin-transactions-in-bali.html http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2018/01/15/bank-indonesia... 4. France's central bank has been whining about cryptocurrency for some time and finally convinced the Minister of Finance to make a public statement and authorize a draft of new regulations. https://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/905169/bitcoin-France-China-South-Korea-ban-illegal-activities-Bruno-Le-Maire https://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/905169/bitcoin-France... 5. A speculative theory: the Bitcoin futures contracts are about to expire, and some investors will have bet on lower BTC prices. There could be large market players deliberately pushing prices down to meet those futures bets. Or just market makers wanting to get in at a lower price point.

stillbourne 9y ago
Or it could be, gasp, perhaps bitcoin was overvalued? No, anything but that.
- HenryBemis 9y ago
  IMO BTC's value could sensibly fluctuate around $10k. The hype/trend and the media frenzy caused the spike of $20k. Let it rest for a while and I believe it will have more races up-and-down the 10k-22k range so people can enjoy their gambling ;)
  - empath75 9y ago
    It could also sensibly fluctuate around $1000 or $100.
- storafrid 9y ago
  How would you define "overvalued"? Is it the current average price compared to a very low price three months from now? What if it recovers a few weeks after that — would that change the fact that it was once "overvalued"? Valuation is not based on nothing, in vacuum. The challenge is to understand the underlying factors. The post you replied to actually tried to shed some light.
  - jhoechtl 9y ago
    The price of energy required to mine 1 BTC. What else? That's its inherent value.
    - glenneroo 9y ago
      This will end very soon since 80% of coins have been mined already. So the energy consumption will only be miners processing transactions.
      - teh_klev 9y ago
        In my book, 2140 isn't "very soon" (based on the current Bitcoin mining algos).
        notsrg 9y ago
        The last 1% of unmined Bitcoin will last over 100 years. A majority of mining profits at that point will be from tx fees.
        teh_klev 9y ago
        Sure, but "only" !== "majority".
    - sethgecko 9y ago
      The price of energy required to mine a bitcoin follows the bitcoin price not the other way around.
- sethgecko 9y ago
  Please do tell what the correct value is for a bitcoin and how you arrived at that number.
  - stillbourne 9y ago
    The value is 0 because entropy is a stupid commodity.
- skerit 9y ago
  I thought most people, even the hard-core believers, were waiting for a correction. The previous times Bitcoin grew so exponentially it was always followed with a hard crash, though this time it's taking a bit longer.
  - empath75 9y ago
    Not really. It took a long time to bottom out post-gox
- flowctrl 9y ago
  Yes theres that, but BTC being overvalued doesn't explain the entire market dip that we are seeing now. However, it is consistent with Bitcoin's historical pattern: https://twitter.com/cryptozerp/status/953324474077769728 https://twitter.com/cryptozerp/status/953324474077769728
Agebor 9y ago
Or just price manipulation by big holders. External factors/news are often regarded as the cause of dips and gains, while other, often simpler reasons remain under appreciated. This post about XRP applies to roughly every other cryptocurrency too: https://www.reddit.com/r/Ripple/comments/7pzd7f/heres_what_will_determine_the_actual_underlying/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Ripple/comments/7pzd7f/heres_what_w...
- s14ve 9y ago
  > There is only one coin in existence that a train the size of a planet can ride on, and it's XRP. Hodl. There, I said it. 2 sentences later > Also, please don't ask for financial advice or price predictions short or long term. You have to make your own decisions. This contradiction undermined the point of whole article for me.
- lawlessone 9y ago
  Ripples creators dont intend for its price to rise, and they can make it dip if they want since they hold most of it. http://hivergent.com/you-shouldnt-invest-in-ripple-and-not-because-its-a-scam/ http://hivergent.com/you-shouldnt-invest-in-ripple-and-not-b...
vonmoltke 9y ago
> 3. Indonesia just banned cryptocurrency transactions, stating only their native currency is legal tender. Nitpick: Butcoin is not, to my knowledge, legal tender anywhere. What Indonesia has done is declare that all transactions in Indonesia must be denominated in rupiah. This is far more restrictive than most Weatern nations where private parties may accept anything they want as payment, but must accept legal tender in certain circumstances.
- DanBC 9y ago
  > but must accept legal tender in certain circumstances. That's not what legal tender means in the UK and the misunderstanding causes some problems. If I have a debt, and I attempt to pay in legal tender, and my creditor refuses to take it, I can say I've discharged the debt. It has no use, in the UK, when I'm buying stuff in a shop. http://edu.bankofengland.co.uk/knowledgebank/what-is-legal-tender/ http://edu.bankofengland.co.uk/knowledgebank/what-is-legal-t...

stillbourne 9y ago

Or it could be, gasp, perhaps bitcoin was overvalued? No, anything but that.

HenryBemis 9y ago
IMO BTC's value could sensibly fluctuate around $10k. The hype/trend and the media frenzy caused the spike of $20k. Let it rest for a while and I believe it will have more races up-and-down the 10k-22k range so people can enjoy their gambling ;)
- empath75 9y ago
  It could also sensibly fluctuate around $1000 or $100.
storafrid 9y ago
How would you define "overvalued"? Is it the current average price compared to a very low price three months from now? What if it recovers a few weeks after that — would that change the fact that it was once "overvalued"? Valuation is not based on nothing, in vacuum. The challenge is to understand the underlying factors. The post you replied to actually tried to shed some light.
- jhoechtl 9y ago
  The price of energy required to mine 1 BTC. What else? That's its inherent value.
  - glenneroo 9y ago
    This will end very soon since 80% of coins have been mined already. So the energy consumption will only be miners processing transactions.
    - teh_klev 9y ago
      In my book, 2140 isn't "very soon" (based on the current Bitcoin mining algos).
      - notsrg 9y ago
        The last 1% of unmined Bitcoin will last over 100 years. A majority of mining profits at that point will be from tx fees.
        teh_klev 9y ago
        Sure, but "only" !== "majority".
  - sethgecko 9y ago
    The price of energy required to mine a bitcoin follows the bitcoin price not the other way around.
sethgecko 9y ago
Please do tell what the correct value is for a bitcoin and how you arrived at that number.
- stillbourne 9y ago
  The value is 0 because entropy is a stupid commodity.
skerit 9y ago
I thought most people, even the hard-core believers, were waiting for a correction. The previous times Bitcoin grew so exponentially it was always followed with a hard crash, though this time it's taking a bit longer.
- empath75 9y ago
  Not really. It took a long time to bottom out post-gox
flowctrl 9y ago
Yes theres that, but BTC being overvalued doesn't explain the entire market dip that we are seeing now. However, it is consistent with Bitcoin's historical pattern: https://twitter.com/cryptozerp/status/953324474077769728 https://twitter.com/cryptozerp/status/953324474077769728

Agebor 9y ago

Or just price manipulation by big holders. External factors/news are often regarded as the cause of dips and gains, while other, often simpler reasons remain under appreciated. This post about XRP applies to roughly every other cryptocurrency too: https://www.reddit.com/r/Ripple/comments/7pzd7f/heres_what_will_determine_the_actual_underlying/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Ripple/comments/7pzd7f/heres_what_w...

s14ve 9y ago
> There is only one coin in existence that a train the size of a planet can ride on, and it's XRP. Hodl. There, I said it. 2 sentences later > Also, please don't ask for financial advice or price predictions short or long term. You have to make your own decisions. This contradiction undermined the point of whole article for me.
lawlessone 9y ago
Ripples creators dont intend for its price to rise, and they can make it dip if they want since they hold most of it. http://hivergent.com/you-shouldnt-invest-in-ripple-and-not-because-its-a-scam/ http://hivergent.com/you-shouldnt-invest-in-ripple-and-not-b...

vonmoltke 9y ago

> 3. Indonesia just banned cryptocurrency transactions, stating only their native currency is legal tender. Nitpick: Butcoin is not, to my knowledge, legal tender anywhere. What Indonesia has done is declare that all transactions in Indonesia must be denominated in rupiah. This is far more restrictive than most Weatern nations where private parties may accept anything they want as payment, but must accept legal tender in certain circumstances.

DanBC 9y ago
> but must accept legal tender in certain circumstances. That's not what legal tender means in the UK and the misunderstanding causes some problems. If I have a debt, and I attempt to pay in legal tender, and my creditor refuses to take it, I can say I've discharged the debt. It has no use, in the UK, when I'm buying stuff in a shop. http://edu.bankofengland.co.uk/knowledgebank/what-is-legal-tender/ http://edu.bankofengland.co.uk/knowledgebank/what-is-legal-t...