8 ms·

On the global survival of mafias

64 points by benbreen 9y ago

nerdponx 9y ago
Maybe I missed it in this article, but does the book talk about the accuracy (or lack thereof) of popular Mafia depictions, like in The Godfather? If they are accurate, where did their authors get their iformation? I'm aware that the author of the original The Godfather novel was Italian, but I don't know more about him beyond that.
- ch4s3 9y ago
  The article doesn't mention the sourcing of pop depictions as such. However,Goodfellas for example made use of FBI tapes and the word of a former mafioso.
- staunch 9y ago
  It's basically all real and fairly accurately portrayed by movies from what I can tell. There are "The Goodfella Tapes" but here's a random JFK doc that has informant info: https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32307931.pdf https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-3...
- cglace 9y ago
  From my understanding he based the main character off of his mother. He said "make me an offer I can't refuse" is something she would say.
woodandsteel 9y ago
From the article: "In his opening chapter, “Birth”, Varese compares the initiation rituals that are common to almost every mafia organization. He draws from interviews, autobiographies and police wiretap transcripts in which the gangsters do most of the talking. It is remarkable how close in style, substance and imagery the initiation ceremonies are across cultures – the religious symbolism, the use of tattoos, the omertà, the misogyny and sealing of membership through blood are present among the Yakuza of Japan, the Russian mafia, the Chinese triads and the Sicilian Mafia." It seems to me mafias are basically tribal societies. That is not surprising as human psychology is basically designed for tribal existence. With complex civilized societies, humans are expected to integrate into something much larger than a simple tribe. However, civilizations often have spaces in which tribes can start up and survive, such as cults and criminal mafias.
- solidsnack9000 9y ago
  One striking feature is the depth of trust in these organisations. Many of them function without written records for all or most matters of importance.
  - careersuicide 9y ago
    Stringer Bell said it best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBdGOrcUEg8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBdGOrcUEg8
  - kartan 9y ago
    > depth of trust I guess that it's more about the big boss is always right. Written records are needed for a fair observance of contracts. With no fairness, contracts are useless because one side can change them without consecuences. "I'm altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further." Darth Vader.
    - solidsnack9000 9y ago
      Maybe everyone keeps in mind what the boss wants and that aligns incentives even for smaller things?
- xkcd-sucks 9y ago
  It's a little disingenuous to characterize it as anachronistic to not fall in line with the One World Order. One reason "alternative power structures" (including families, religions, corporations) arise is because organization is simply necessary to compete with "apex predator" cultures, governments etc., and members of smaller groups often are/feel marginalized. Not that o e ought to feel morally obligated to slow down the pace of social darwinism, but if you are the one getting eaten things look a little different.
  - gowld 9y ago
    Given the choice, almost everyone prefers the luxuries and comforts that arise from the One World Order.
kmnc 9y ago
The article doesn't really go into what mafias are actually doing to stay alive. What cyber crimes are the mafias in control of? Are any large "cyber gangs" not connected to local mafias? I have always loved the fantasy of the mafia just from a job advancement and loyalty point of view. You start at the bottom, get rewarded for hard work and being intelligent and eventually get "made". Then you have power, unconditional respect, and life long guarantees of a job, security, and family. Getting "made" should be a real thing in the corporate world.
- michaelbuckbee 9y ago
  Would you consider tenure in academia to be an equivalent? Or maybe rank/advancement in the military?
  - uncletaco 9y ago
    I would. Feudalism, corporate promotion, and academia all sounds like gangsterism by other names to me.
    - labster 9y ago
      I laughed, then I remembered stories about offers from the thesis committee that you can't refuse. Fortunately they can only kill your career.
- toomanybeersies 9y ago
  It's a two way street though, you can't leave. Imagine a job where you're guaranteed a job, but you're also never allowed to resign on fear of injury and/or death.
- taneq 9y ago
  I think "made" is when you're on a few company boards and in the old boys' club, and you can spend the rest of your life patting each other on the back and voting for pay raises for each other.
- arca_vorago 9y ago
frabbit 9y ago
Coincidentally just came across this interesting list of noir produced by blacklisted US writers: https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/01/17/force-of-evil-abraham-polonsky-and-anti-capitalist-noir/ https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/01/17/force-of-evil-abraha...

64 points by benbreen 9y ago

Maybe I missed it in this article, but does the book talk about the accuracy (or lack thereof) of popular Mafia depictions, like in The Godfather? If they are accurate, where did their authors get their iformation? I'm aware that the author of the original The Godfather novel was Italian, but I don't know more about him beyond that.

ch4s3 9y ago
The article doesn't mention the sourcing of pop depictions as such. However,Goodfellas for example made use of FBI tapes and the word of a former mafioso.
staunch 9y ago
It's basically all real and fairly accurately portrayed by movies from what I can tell. There are "The Goodfella Tapes" but here's a random JFK doc that has informant info: https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32307931.pdf https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-3...
cglace 9y ago
From my understanding he based the main character off of his mother. He said "make me an offer I can't refuse" is something she would say.

woodandsteel 9y ago

From the article: "In his opening chapter, “Birth”, Varese compares the initiation rituals that are common to almost every mafia organization. He draws from interviews, autobiographies and police wiretap transcripts in which the gangsters do most of the talking. It is remarkable how close in style, substance and imagery the initiation ceremonies are across cultures – the religious symbolism, the use of tattoos, the omertà, the misogyny and sealing of membership through blood are present among the Yakuza of Japan, the Russian mafia, the Chinese triads and the Sicilian Mafia." It seems to me mafias are basically tribal societies. That is not surprising as human psychology is basically designed for tribal existence. With complex civilized societies, humans are expected to integrate into something much larger than a simple tribe. However, civilizations often have spaces in which tribes can start up and survive, such as cults and criminal mafias.

solidsnack9000 9y ago
One striking feature is the depth of trust in these organisations. Many of them function without written records for all or most matters of importance.
- careersuicide 9y ago
  Stringer Bell said it best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBdGOrcUEg8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBdGOrcUEg8
- kartan 9y ago
  > depth of trust I guess that it's more about the big boss is always right. Written records are needed for a fair observance of contracts. With no fairness, contracts are useless because one side can change them without consecuences. "I'm altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further." Darth Vader.
  - solidsnack9000 9y ago
    Maybe everyone keeps in mind what the boss wants and that aligns incentives even for smaller things?
xkcd-sucks 9y ago
It's a little disingenuous to characterize it as anachronistic to not fall in line with the One World Order. One reason "alternative power structures" (including families, religions, corporations) arise is because organization is simply necessary to compete with "apex predator" cultures, governments etc., and members of smaller groups often are/feel marginalized. Not that o e ought to feel morally obligated to slow down the pace of social darwinism, but if you are the one getting eaten things look a little different.
- gowld 9y ago
  Given the choice, almost everyone prefers the luxuries and comforts that arise from the One World Order.

kmnc 9y ago

The article doesn't really go into what mafias are actually doing to stay alive. What cyber crimes are the mafias in control of? Are any large "cyber gangs" not connected to local mafias? I have always loved the fantasy of the mafia just from a job advancement and loyalty point of view. You start at the bottom, get rewarded for hard work and being intelligent and eventually get "made". Then you have power, unconditional respect, and life long guarantees of a job, security, and family. Getting "made" should be a real thing in the corporate world.

michaelbuckbee 9y ago
Would you consider tenure in academia to be an equivalent? Or maybe rank/advancement in the military?
- uncletaco 9y ago
  I would. Feudalism, corporate promotion, and academia all sounds like gangsterism by other names to me.
  - labster 9y ago
    I laughed, then I remembered stories about offers from the thesis committee that you can't refuse. Fortunately they can only kill your career.
toomanybeersies 9y ago
It's a two way street though, you can't leave. Imagine a job where you're guaranteed a job, but you're also never allowed to resign on fear of injury and/or death.
taneq 9y ago
I think "made" is when you're on a few company boards and in the old boys' club, and you can spend the rest of your life patting each other on the back and voting for pay raises for each other.
arca_vorago 9y ago

frabbit 9y ago

Coincidentally just came across this interesting list of noir produced by blacklisted US writers: https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/01/17/force-of-evil-abraham-polonsky-and-anti-capitalist-noir/ https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/01/17/force-of-evil-abraha...