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There's a couple things that make trucks a hard nut to crack(again I say this as a Model S + diesel truck owner). 1. There's a 6k GVWR weight limit for a lot o

There's a couple things that make trucks a hard nut to crack(again I say this as a Model S + diesel truck owner). 1. There's a 6k GVWR weight limit for a lot of local streets. Most half-ton trucks are in the 5200k range so adding 2k of batteries easily puts you over this. 2. Trucks are rated for total tow capacity, adding 2k of batteries means you cut towing capacity by 2k or upgrade the brakes/drivetrain which adds more weight. 3. Trucks aren't that aerodynamic, trailers even less so. That means per-kW you're going to get a lot less range than something that has a good Cd. 4. Charging stations just aren't setup for trailers at all. You'd have to find a place to unhitch, charge and rehitch which adds even more travel time. For commercial trucking routes you can probably go electric sooner since they are regular routes but for consumer trucks I don't see it happening soon. Recently we had to drive 400mi roundtrip towing a 5k lb trailer @ 18 MPG. Going from a GGE of 37kw/gal * 0.5 thermal we would have needed a 412kWh battery pack to make that trip with 0% range left.

mulmen 9y ago
1-2: How much does a diesel fuel tank + transmission + engine weigh? Would it really require adding 2,000lb of batteries to the truck or can something serviceable be built with a similar overall weight? 3: Why does an electric truck have to look like a gasoline truck? can it be repackaged to be more aerodynamic? 4: This is trivially easy to solve. How many times did you stop for fuel on your trip? How long were you at your destination 200 miles away?
- vvanders 9y ago
  > 1-2 Doubt it considering all BEVs are heavier. Our Model S weights nearly the same as our half-ton and that's without the frame-reinforcement needing to tow. > 3 If you want standard truck clearance and bed sizes you're not going to do this without making trucks a lot longer. For reference our Model S and short-bed quad cab are already close in length. > 4 Easy in theory but massive infrastructure investment. Also if you've ever towed a trailer then you'd know there's some sidestreets where superchargers are where you physically cannot turn around a trailer. For reference we did the trip in 4 hours, no stopping since the truck has a 26gal tank. I'm as big of a proponent of EVs as you'll find but you also can't just blindly assert that EVs will work everywhere if you want to convince people that you aren't crazy. There are realistic limits and I think applying the technology where it makes sense is the fastest way to drive adoption.
Robotbeat 9y ago
2. An electric truck will have way more towing capacity, and the regen braking helps the braking system tremendously.
- vvanders 9y ago
  Towing capacity is more than just the powertrain. The frame, suspension and brakes make a huge difference. 1500->2500 has a huge GVWR jump but only a small engine size increase. The extra weight from a batter pack is also going to eat into your tow capacity. You also can't rely on engine braking in cold-soaked weather or at full charge so you're still don't get to omit those things.
  - Robotbeat 9y ago
    You most certainly can rely on engine braking in those conditions. In operation, the battery quickly warms up and can easily be set to warm before the car is started. It's also common to not fully charge a large-battery EV unless you need to. It helps battery life if you only charge to ~90% anyway (no one drives around with a fully-fueled conventional vehicle at all times).
    - vvanders 9y ago
      I've owned a Model S for 2 years and 65k miles, I'm really familiar with regenerative braking. Let's say your charging for a long trip to 100% and live at to top of a large grade. In that case you will have to rely on your brakes 100%. I know this because I make a 300mi roundtrip that exactly matches that profile nearly every week and for the first 5 miles I have no regenerative braking. From a safety standard you have to match the braking system of an equally equiped ICE.
      - Robotbeat 9y ago
        If you live on the top of a tall hill, there's no reason to charge to 100% no matter how long your trip will be as you'll charge up to 100% on the way down. All you have to do from a safety perspective is ensure there's charge overhead. I own a Volt and there's a "mountain mode" setting for just this purpose, plus in the Volt there's always some headroom in the battery that is held in reserve by the system.

mulmen 9y ago

1-2: How much does a diesel fuel tank + transmission + engine weigh? Would it really require adding 2,000lb of batteries to the truck or can something serviceable be built with a similar overall weight? 3: Why does an electric truck have to look like a gasoline truck? can it be repackaged to be more aerodynamic? 4: This is trivially easy to solve. How many times did you stop for fuel on your trip? How long were you at your destination 200 miles away?

vvanders 9y ago
> 1-2 Doubt it considering all BEVs are heavier. Our Model S weights nearly the same as our half-ton and that's without the frame-reinforcement needing to tow. > 3 If you want standard truck clearance and bed sizes you're not going to do this without making trucks a lot longer. For reference our Model S and short-bed quad cab are already close in length. > 4 Easy in theory but massive infrastructure investment. Also if you've ever towed a trailer then you'd know there's some sidestreets where superchargers are where you physically cannot turn around a trailer. For reference we did the trip in 4 hours, no stopping since the truck has a 26gal tank. I'm as big of a proponent of EVs as you'll find but you also can't just blindly assert that EVs will work everywhere if you want to convince people that you aren't crazy. There are realistic limits and I think applying the technology where it makes sense is the fastest way to drive adoption.

Robotbeat 9y ago

2. An electric truck will have way more towing capacity, and the regen braking helps the braking system tremendously.

vvanders 9y ago
Towing capacity is more than just the powertrain. The frame, suspension and brakes make a huge difference. 1500->2500 has a huge GVWR jump but only a small engine size increase. The extra weight from a batter pack is also going to eat into your tow capacity. You also can't rely on engine braking in cold-soaked weather or at full charge so you're still don't get to omit those things.
- Robotbeat 9y ago
  You most certainly can rely on engine braking in those conditions. In operation, the battery quickly warms up and can easily be set to warm before the car is started. It's also common to not fully charge a large-battery EV unless you need to. It helps battery life if you only charge to ~90% anyway (no one drives around with a fully-fueled conventional vehicle at all times).
  - vvanders 9y ago
    I've owned a Model S for 2 years and 65k miles, I'm really familiar with regenerative braking. Let's say your charging for a long trip to 100% and live at to top of a large grade. In that case you will have to rely on your brakes 100%. I know this because I make a 300mi roundtrip that exactly matches that profile nearly every week and for the first 5 miles I have no regenerative braking. From a safety standard you have to match the braking system of an equally equiped ICE.
    - Robotbeat 9y ago
      If you live on the top of a tall hill, there's no reason to charge to 100% no matter how long your trip will be as you'll charge up to 100% on the way down. All you have to do from a safety perspective is ensure there's charge overhead. I own a Volt and there's a "mountain mode" setting for just this purpose, plus in the Volt there's always some headroom in the battery that is held in reserve by the system.