5 ms·

Well, the article is barely more than a headline and a bunch of mediocre comments itself, although it links to a paper behind a paywall. http://onlinelibrary.wi

by kurthr 9y ago

Well, the article is barely more than a headline and a bunch of mediocre comments itself, although it links to a paper behind a paywall. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ecoj.12521/full http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ecoj.12521/full I would guess though that meth (a la Breaking Bad) is too easy to make inside the US for import competition, while heroin has been hit by the dual availability of Pharma delivered Oxy and China delivered Fentanyl/Carfentanil... the combination makes for a bad time in the cartel industry. Of course that makes them more desperate to import other things for pay.

IgorPartola 9y ago
Meth is actually really interesting. It's a very democratic drug in that it's really easy for the user to make it themselves. Pot is another one that theoretically lets you grow it yourself, but it's significantly harder and requires a larger investment. From what I gather, as long as you manage to not blow yourself up, the shake and bake method requires very little supplies and tools to make meth. Edit: to be clear, I am not advocating that anyone use meth. It's a horrible drug that will fuck your life. I do however find its particular properties interesting in the abstract.
- WalterSear 9y ago
  > Pot is another one that theoretically lets you grow it yourself, but it's significantly harder and requires a larger investment. A bunch of seeds and a pot of compost? Speaking from experience, fwiw.
  - mschuster91 9y ago
    > A bunch of seeds and a pot of compost? ...and a location with proper sun. Outdoor-sun-grown weed... that brings back memories.
  - IgorPartola 9y ago
    Not speaking from experience but I thought it requires heating lamps, knowledge of make vs female plants, different types, etc. I suppose in the states where it’s been decriminalized, you can grow it outdoors and not worry about some of that stuff, but that certainly seems like more work than tossing some Sudafed and whatever else in an empty can and shaking it a bunch. Again, not advocating anyone try meth. Do not try meth.
- spraak 9y ago
  I'm not sure what would be more fitting, but "democratic" seems like thewrong word here. I understand what you mean, though. The easiest drug to make yourself is probably alcohol e.g. people making their own in prison.
  - IgorPartola 9y ago
    Alcohol actually seems kind of hard to make. I did some beer brewing and it’s a process. Fermentation takes a long time, contamination could make it super foul, etc. As far as the word choice, you are probably right. It’s probsbly better to say “most easily accessible to the DIY community” :)
    - spraak 9y ago
      I think it takes practice for sure, but in terms of necessary equipment and ingredients, it's the simplest. Any sugary water (fruit juice) is enough. And can be done in very small spaces, like in prison like I'd mentioned
      - lazerpants 9y ago
        Welch's juice (any kind) and baker's yeast in room temperature storage will yield 7-8% alcohol wine in a couple of days. Doesn't taste particularly good but it is very easy.
  - paulddraper 9y ago
    Could be "accessible" or "egalitarian".
philipkglass 9y ago
It's relatively easy to make from ephedrine or pseudoephedrine, but the over-the-counter decongestant pills containing those precursors have had their availability drastically curtailed in the US over the past 20 years. I think that Breaking Bad showed how much hard work it was to have a bunch of straw-purchasers buy pills up to each person's legal limit, so you could gather enough of them to make wholesale quantities of the drug. Cartels can run large labs supplied with drums of industrial chemicals instead of taking the "easy" but difficult-to-scale route that starts with OTC pills. And if they used to be able to turn a profit on smuggling product with a mass-to-value ratio as low as cannabis, they should surely be able to manage the same with methamphetamine.
- XorNot 9y ago
  But again that presumes the markets are substitutatable at the same sort of scale and they're just not. This line of thinking feels like a hold over from the 80s and the notion of drug pushers. High school kids aren't going to just start doing meth.
  - philipkglass 9y ago
    I agree that cartels can't just "pivot to meth" and make the same total profits. There's not enough American demand for meth. I was trying to explain why, for supplying the demand that does exist, meth smuggling is profitable despite the relatively low barriers to entry for small-scale production of meth inside America.

by kurthr 9y ago

IgorPartola 9y ago

Meth is actually really interesting. It's a very democratic drug in that it's really easy for the user to make it themselves. Pot is another one that theoretically lets you grow it yourself, but it's significantly harder and requires a larger investment. From what I gather, as long as you manage to not blow yourself up, the shake and bake method requires very little supplies and tools to make meth. Edit: to be clear, I am not advocating that anyone use meth. It's a horrible drug that will fuck your life. I do however find its particular properties interesting in the abstract.

WalterSear 9y ago
> Pot is another one that theoretically lets you grow it yourself, but it's significantly harder and requires a larger investment. A bunch of seeds and a pot of compost? Speaking from experience, fwiw.
- mschuster91 9y ago
  > A bunch of seeds and a pot of compost? ...and a location with proper sun. Outdoor-sun-grown weed... that brings back memories.
- IgorPartola 9y ago
  Not speaking from experience but I thought it requires heating lamps, knowledge of make vs female plants, different types, etc. I suppose in the states where it’s been decriminalized, you can grow it outdoors and not worry about some of that stuff, but that certainly seems like more work than tossing some Sudafed and whatever else in an empty can and shaking it a bunch. Again, not advocating anyone try meth. Do not try meth.
spraak 9y ago
I'm not sure what would be more fitting, but "democratic" seems like thewrong word here. I understand what you mean, though. The easiest drug to make yourself is probably alcohol e.g. people making their own in prison.
- IgorPartola 9y ago
  Alcohol actually seems kind of hard to make. I did some beer brewing and it’s a process. Fermentation takes a long time, contamination could make it super foul, etc. As far as the word choice, you are probably right. It’s probsbly better to say “most easily accessible to the DIY community” :)
  - spraak 9y ago
    I think it takes practice for sure, but in terms of necessary equipment and ingredients, it's the simplest. Any sugary water (fruit juice) is enough. And can be done in very small spaces, like in prison like I'd mentioned
    - lazerpants 9y ago
      Welch's juice (any kind) and baker's yeast in room temperature storage will yield 7-8% alcohol wine in a couple of days. Doesn't taste particularly good but it is very easy.
- paulddraper 9y ago
  Could be "accessible" or "egalitarian".

philipkglass 9y ago

It's relatively easy to make from ephedrine or pseudoephedrine, but the over-the-counter decongestant pills containing those precursors have had their availability drastically curtailed in the US over the past 20 years. I think that Breaking Bad showed how much hard work it was to have a bunch of straw-purchasers buy pills up to each person's legal limit, so you could gather enough of them to make wholesale quantities of the drug. Cartels can run large labs supplied with drums of industrial chemicals instead of taking the "easy" but difficult-to-scale route that starts with OTC pills. And if they used to be able to turn a profit on smuggling product with a mass-to-value ratio as low as cannabis, they should surely be able to manage the same with methamphetamine.

XorNot 9y ago
But again that presumes the markets are substitutatable at the same sort of scale and they're just not. This line of thinking feels like a hold over from the 80s and the notion of drug pushers. High school kids aren't going to just start doing meth.
- philipkglass 9y ago
  I agree that cartels can't just "pivot to meth" and make the same total profits. There's not enough American demand for meth. I was trying to explain why, for supplying the demand that does exist, meth smuggling is profitable despite the relatively low barriers to entry for small-scale production of meth inside America.