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I've worked and had roles where I had a non-existent manager. If it is really really that bad, it's a much better outcome to leave amicably versus fighting to

by ejcx 9y ago

I've worked and had roles where I had a non-existent manager. If it is really really that bad, it's a much better outcome to leave amicably versus fighting to fix the issue. Remember that software is a very small industry we all work together in. There's no candid way to fix your manager's behavior if they are non-existent, or completely detached from their team. Especially if your manager's manager does not care or know.

InclinedPlane 9y ago
Indeed. Going the extra mile to fix problems outside your purview to benefit the company is a lot to ask individual contributors. If you want to grow into a different job then that can be a worthwhile route, sometimes. But there is only so far that any individual should be asked to go on their own. Ideally the employee/employer relationship is a two way street, you do work and the management/corporate structure also does work to facilitate you in your work and help you be as productive, engaged, and satisfied as possible. If the management chain is doing no work and you have to pick up the slack or if they are doing negative work that you have to counteract then that's an abusive relationship. If you were doing no work for the company they wouldn't hesitate to push you out the door ASAP, you shouldn't be excessively more committed to the professional relationship than they are. There are lots of other opportunities out there, go find one where your talents are appreciated and complemented by others. You don't have to set yourself on fire to keep others warm.
draw_down 9y ago
> If it is really really that bad, it's a much better outcome to leave amicably versus fighting to fix the issue. That's generally my feeling as well, it's a bit perverse to me how companies expect individuals to fight to fix systemic problems in the organization, meanwhile when they have a problem with you they will most likely just fire you. Performance reviews are all about how you're living up to expectations but never about how the environment in which you work meets basic expectations. Et cetera. Anyway, if the company is falling down badly enough that you don't have a (real) manager, I agree the best remedy is most likely to leave.
GuiA 9y ago
Indeed. I did not have a ~great~ manager until my 3rd or 4th job, and if I had known people like that existed before I certainly would not have stayed as long in some of the earlier jobs.
- rejschaap 9y ago
  I had a really great manager on my 1st job, but due to limited experience I did not recognize and appreciate it at that time. Not that it would have changed my decision to leave, the commute was terrible and I wasn't willing to move.

by ejcx 9y ago

InclinedPlane 9y ago

Indeed. Going the extra mile to fix problems outside your purview to benefit the company is a lot to ask individual contributors. If you want to grow into a different job then that can be a worthwhile route, sometimes. But there is only so far that any individual should be asked to go on their own. Ideally the employee/employer relationship is a two way street, you do work and the management/corporate structure also does work to facilitate you in your work and help you be as productive, engaged, and satisfied as possible. If the management chain is doing no work and you have to pick up the slack or if they are doing negative work that you have to counteract then that's an abusive relationship. If you were doing no work for the company they wouldn't hesitate to push you out the door ASAP, you shouldn't be excessively more committed to the professional relationship than they are. There are lots of other opportunities out there, go find one where your talents are appreciated and complemented by others. You don't have to set yourself on fire to keep others warm.

draw_down 9y ago

> If it is really really that bad, it's a much better outcome to leave amicably versus fighting to fix the issue. That's generally my feeling as well, it's a bit perverse to me how companies expect individuals to fight to fix systemic problems in the organization, meanwhile when they have a problem with you they will most likely just fire you. Performance reviews are all about how you're living up to expectations but never about how the environment in which you work meets basic expectations. Et cetera. Anyway, if the company is falling down badly enough that you don't have a (real) manager, I agree the best remedy is most likely to leave.

GuiA 9y ago

Indeed. I did not have a ~great~ manager until my 3rd or 4th job, and if I had known people like that existed before I certainly would not have stayed as long in some of the earlier jobs.

rejschaap 9y ago
I had a really great manager on my 1st job, but due to limited experience I did not recognize and appreciate it at that time. Not that it would have changed my decision to leave, the commute was terrible and I wasn't willing to move.