14 ms·

Emulators are not illegal. Sony even lost a lawsuit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleem!#Sony_lawsuit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleem!#Sony_lawsuit

slg 9y ago
This the equivalent of "this pipe is for tobacco use only" or "BitTorrent is used to share Linux distros". Yes, emulators are legal. But we all know that the overwhelming use of them is in illegal situations. EDIT: Since this comment is currently sitting at -2 points, I figured I would expand on my rather glib comment. From Nintendo's website: >whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet.[1] What percentage of emulators are only used to play homebrewed games or commercial games that an individual has personally backed up? Almost all other uses are illegal. [1] - https://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#emulator https://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#emulator
- 15charlimit 9y ago
  They can claim something is illegal all they want, but that has no impact whatsoever on the actual legality of it. Anti-consumer EULA/TOS items haven't held up in court for a while now.
  - slg 9y ago
    That isn't a EULA/TOS rule, it is a summary of the law. Can you find any reputable source to disprove what Nintendo says? Here is an independent summary from Tech Radar that agrees with Nintendo. [1] [1] - http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/are-game-emulators-legal-1329264 http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/are-game-emulators-lega...
    - ThatGeoGuy 9y ago
      Depends on jurisdiction a lot, quite honestly. Nintendo can say it's illegal all it wants, but if I own a physical copy of a game, and make a digital backup of such, then I'm in the clear as far as Canadian law (see our copyright bill C-11) goes. A ROM made from an official copy vs. downloaded from the internet are pretty hard to tell apart, but regardless you are allowed to own and retain such copies if you own the original. That being said, if there's DRM and you break it, then you have a different issue entirely. Owning the ROM wouldn't be illegal, but breaking the DRM certainly would be. Even if in the process of legally backing up your data off of the disc you break the DRM, you're still in legal hot waters. Quite frankly I'm convinced Nintendo can say all it wants, it's a scare tactic and for the most part they're full of shit unless you take into account a specific part of US or Japanese law in a specific state or jurisdiction. I would not assume that they know exactly what they're talking about globally.
      - kaoD 9y ago
        Can confirm: my jurisdiction has a clause that allows private copies including (but not limited to) digital backups. https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derecho_de_copia_privada https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derecho_de_copia_privada I'm sorry I couldn't find this article on English Wikipedia.
      - slg 9y ago
        Nothing you said disagrees with anything Nintendo said. You also should note that page is from the Nintendo USA/Canada region website. It isn't trying to explain the situation for every jurisdiction globally.
        khedoros1 9y ago
        ThatGeoGuy: "A ROM made from an official copy vs. downloaded from the internet are pretty hard to tell apart, but regardless you are allowed to own and retain such copies if you own the original." Nintendo: "whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet." Those seem like conflicting statements, if you assume that "such copies" means both "a ROM made from an official copy" (i.e. read by the individual from their own cartridge) and a copy "downloaded from the internet". And further, Nintendo claims that game copying devices themselves are also illegal.
    - ofcourseianal 9y ago
      Wow, you’re really going wild with the burden of proof. Maybe we should add “Appeal to Nintendo” to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies?
      - slg 9y ago
        Am I going crazy? I provided an honest source for my point. It was pointed out the source I used is likely biased. I therefore provided a second independent source that agreed with the original source. No one has yet provided any source that disagrees with anything I stated or anything stated by either of the sources I linked. And yet is a fallacy for me to ask that someone should have a source if they are going to argue against the two sources I provided?
        pikchurn 9y ago
        Your source was someone asserting, without justification, that it is illegal. That's not a legal argument. Even without considering that the source is very, very biased, it's not helpful.
  - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
    They're right, it isn't legal. The only legal way to acquire a usable ROM in the US is to rip it yourself from a disc/cartridge that you own. That doesn't mean that it's wrong to download ROMs. I've done it. It's just not legal. People are confusing a factual accounting of the law with personal moral condemnation.
- jamie_ca 9y ago
  For all of Nintendo's posturing on this subject, they've been selling games on emulators for the past few years, both on the Virtual Console and in the form of the NES and SNES Classic.
  - jsgo 9y ago
    to be fair, they have the rights to do so, apparently. Was a bit shocked Earthbound made the trip due to that one, rumor anyway, having rights to the music and what not expiring.
  - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
    That makes no sense. You're saying that it's hypocritical for a company to object to people pirating software if they also sell that software.
- oelmekki 9y ago
  Have an upvote. I don't agree with you, but those group downvoting are really mass bullying, to me. Regarding the topic, I wonder what part of revenue for game console creators is in selling the console, and which part is to licencing games, that is, allowing them to be built for the platform. I would presume console creators get some royalties or something on sells for their platform? Anyone know about this? Of course, the real piracy problem is game isos.
  - izacus 9y ago
    > Have an upvote. I don't agree with you, but those group downvoting are really mass bullying, to me. Why? This is literaly lying FUD which is perpetuated by the companies who try to deny you law-given rights.
  - spondyl 9y ago
    Console makers don't make much money off of the hardware themselves. Here's a few examples: Switch: ~$40 profit[1] PS4: ~$18 profit[2] Xbox One: ~$30 profit[3] As for software, a Forbes estimate from 2006 put the console manufacturer cut at around 11.5%, however that could be different nowadays. This also changes with exclusivity deals in which the fee is presumably waived. I believe Sony would gain a little extra from licensing the Blu-ray technology on top of that. But yeah, you're right. Much like printers and ink cartridges, the money is in the contents, not the device. Disclaimer: I'm not in any way a part of the industry, just an interested fan of the medium so take this with a grain of salt and feel free to provide any knowledge you might have [1]: https://www.polygon.com/2017/4/5/15195638/nintendo-switch-component-cost-estimate https://www.polygon.com/2017/4/5/15195638/nintendo-switch-co... [2]: http://allthingsd.com/20131119/teardown-shows-sonys-playstation-4-costs-381-to-build/ http://allthingsd.com/20131119/teardown-shows-sonys-playstat... [3]: http://allthingsd.com/20131126/microsofts-xbox-one-cost-90-more-to-build-than-sonys-ps4-teardown-shows/ http://allthingsd.com/20131126/microsofts-xbox-one-cost-90-m... [4]: https://www.forbes.com/2006/12/19/ps3-xbox360-costs-tech-cx_rr_game06_1219expensivegames_slide/#3bb0c9db4faa https://www.forbes.com/2006/12/19/ps3-xbox360-costs-tech-cx_...
    - kristofferR 9y ago
- ekianjo 9y ago
  > Yes, emulators are legal. But we all know that the overwhelming use of them is in illegal situations. I use emulators to play games that I rip myself, so it's not because something can be used in an illegal way that it should be forbidden. It's like saying "oh, pot could be used legally but most of its use is illegal" - if people use it this way and it's against the Law maybe there's a problem with the Law in the first place.
- esturk 9y ago
  That's some red herring argument there. For people not aware, the parent comment is applying https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_consequences https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_consequences where s/he focuses on the consequences to detracts from the legality of a emulator in this case. The same type of argument is often used to warrant banning guns simply because the consequence of having them will result in mass murder.
- Brockenstein 9y ago
  Emulators are legal (emulators that don't themselves violate copyright law to function). Pirating software is not. It's really that simple. And right now emulator authors aren't legally responsible for how their users use their software so long as the authors keep their noses clean.
strictnein 9y ago
I paid for Bleem. Even though I had used other emulators for things like NES, Sega, etc, it seemed like absolute magic to be able to throw a PS1 game in a computer and have it work.
- jeffbax 9y ago
  pour one out for Bleemcast!

slg 9y ago

This the equivalent of "this pipe is for tobacco use only" or "BitTorrent is used to share Linux distros". Yes, emulators are legal. But we all know that the overwhelming use of them is in illegal situations. EDIT: Since this comment is currently sitting at -2 points, I figured I would expand on my rather glib comment. From Nintendo's website: >whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet.[1] What percentage of emulators are only used to play homebrewed games or commercial games that an individual has personally backed up? Almost all other uses are illegal. [1] - https://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#emulator https://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#emulator

15charlimit 9y ago
They can claim something is illegal all they want, but that has no impact whatsoever on the actual legality of it. Anti-consumer EULA/TOS items haven't held up in court for a while now.
- slg 9y ago
  That isn't a EULA/TOS rule, it is a summary of the law. Can you find any reputable source to disprove what Nintendo says? Here is an independent summary from Tech Radar that agrees with Nintendo. [1] [1] - http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/are-game-emulators-legal-1329264 http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/are-game-emulators-lega...
  - ThatGeoGuy 9y ago
    Depends on jurisdiction a lot, quite honestly. Nintendo can say it's illegal all it wants, but if I own a physical copy of a game, and make a digital backup of such, then I'm in the clear as far as Canadian law (see our copyright bill C-11) goes. A ROM made from an official copy vs. downloaded from the internet are pretty hard to tell apart, but regardless you are allowed to own and retain such copies if you own the original. That being said, if there's DRM and you break it, then you have a different issue entirely. Owning the ROM wouldn't be illegal, but breaking the DRM certainly would be. Even if in the process of legally backing up your data off of the disc you break the DRM, you're still in legal hot waters. Quite frankly I'm convinced Nintendo can say all it wants, it's a scare tactic and for the most part they're full of shit unless you take into account a specific part of US or Japanese law in a specific state or jurisdiction. I would not assume that they know exactly what they're talking about globally.
    - kaoD 9y ago
      Can confirm: my jurisdiction has a clause that allows private copies including (but not limited to) digital backups. https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derecho_de_copia_privada https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derecho_de_copia_privada I'm sorry I couldn't find this article on English Wikipedia.
    - slg 9y ago
      Nothing you said disagrees with anything Nintendo said. You also should note that page is from the Nintendo USA/Canada region website. It isn't trying to explain the situation for every jurisdiction globally.
      - khedoros1 9y ago
        ThatGeoGuy: "A ROM made from an official copy vs. downloaded from the internet are pretty hard to tell apart, but regardless you are allowed to own and retain such copies if you own the original." Nintendo: "whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet." Those seem like conflicting statements, if you assume that "such copies" means both "a ROM made from an official copy" (i.e. read by the individual from their own cartridge) and a copy "downloaded from the internet". And further, Nintendo claims that game copying devices themselves are also illegal.
  - ofcourseianal 9y ago
    Wow, you’re really going wild with the burden of proof. Maybe we should add “Appeal to Nintendo” to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies?
    - slg 9y ago
      Am I going crazy? I provided an honest source for my point. It was pointed out the source I used is likely biased. I therefore provided a second independent source that agreed with the original source. No one has yet provided any source that disagrees with anything I stated or anything stated by either of the sources I linked. And yet is a fallacy for me to ask that someone should have a source if they are going to argue against the two sources I provided?
      - pikchurn 9y ago
        Your source was someone asserting, without justification, that it is illegal. That's not a legal argument. Even without considering that the source is very, very biased, it's not helpful.
- PhasmaFelis 9y ago
  They're right, it isn't legal. The only legal way to acquire a usable ROM in the US is to rip it yourself from a disc/cartridge that you own. That doesn't mean that it's wrong to download ROMs. I've done it. It's just not legal. People are confusing a factual accounting of the law with personal moral condemnation.
jamie_ca 9y ago
For all of Nintendo's posturing on this subject, they've been selling games on emulators for the past few years, both on the Virtual Console and in the form of the NES and SNES Classic.
- jsgo 9y ago
  to be fair, they have the rights to do so, apparently. Was a bit shocked Earthbound made the trip due to that one, rumor anyway, having rights to the music and what not expiring.
- PhasmaFelis 9y ago
  That makes no sense. You're saying that it's hypocritical for a company to object to people pirating software if they also sell that software.
oelmekki 9y ago
Have an upvote. I don't agree with you, but those group downvoting are really mass bullying, to me. Regarding the topic, I wonder what part of revenue for game console creators is in selling the console, and which part is to licencing games, that is, allowing them to be built for the platform. I would presume console creators get some royalties or something on sells for their platform? Anyone know about this? Of course, the real piracy problem is game isos.
- izacus 9y ago
  > Have an upvote. I don't agree with you, but those group downvoting are really mass bullying, to me. Why? This is literaly lying FUD which is perpetuated by the companies who try to deny you law-given rights.
- spondyl 9y ago
  Console makers don't make much money off of the hardware themselves. Here's a few examples: Switch: ~$40 profit[1] PS4: ~$18 profit[2] Xbox One: ~$30 profit[3] As for software, a Forbes estimate from 2006 put the console manufacturer cut at around 11.5%, however that could be different nowadays. This also changes with exclusivity deals in which the fee is presumably waived. I believe Sony would gain a little extra from licensing the Blu-ray technology on top of that. But yeah, you're right. Much like printers and ink cartridges, the money is in the contents, not the device. Disclaimer: I'm not in any way a part of the industry, just an interested fan of the medium so take this with a grain of salt and feel free to provide any knowledge you might have [1]: https://www.polygon.com/2017/4/5/15195638/nintendo-switch-component-cost-estimate https://www.polygon.com/2017/4/5/15195638/nintendo-switch-co... [2]: http://allthingsd.com/20131119/teardown-shows-sonys-playstation-4-costs-381-to-build/ http://allthingsd.com/20131119/teardown-shows-sonys-playstat... [3]: http://allthingsd.com/20131126/microsofts-xbox-one-cost-90-more-to-build-than-sonys-ps4-teardown-shows/ http://allthingsd.com/20131126/microsofts-xbox-one-cost-90-m... [4]: https://www.forbes.com/2006/12/19/ps3-xbox360-costs-tech-cx_rr_game06_1219expensivegames_slide/#3bb0c9db4faa https://www.forbes.com/2006/12/19/ps3-xbox360-costs-tech-cx_...
  - kristofferR 9y ago
ekianjo 9y ago
> Yes, emulators are legal. But we all know that the overwhelming use of them is in illegal situations. I use emulators to play games that I rip myself, so it's not because something can be used in an illegal way that it should be forbidden. It's like saying "oh, pot could be used legally but most of its use is illegal" - if people use it this way and it's against the Law maybe there's a problem with the Law in the first place.
esturk 9y ago
That's some red herring argument there. For people not aware, the parent comment is applying https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_consequences https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_consequences where s/he focuses on the consequences to detracts from the legality of a emulator in this case. The same type of argument is often used to warrant banning guns simply because the consequence of having them will result in mass murder.
Brockenstein 9y ago
Emulators are legal (emulators that don't themselves violate copyright law to function). Pirating software is not. It's really that simple. And right now emulator authors aren't legally responsible for how their users use their software so long as the authors keep their noses clean.

strictnein 9y ago

I paid for Bleem. Even though I had used other emulators for things like NES, Sega, etc, it seemed like absolute magic to be able to throw a PS1 game in a computer and have it work.

jeffbax 9y ago
pour one out for Bleemcast!