6 ms·

Huh? If your boss isn't supporting you, GTFO. Either to another group internally or another company. No offense, but most of this it putting lipstick on a pig

Huh? If your boss isn't supporting you, GTFO. Either to another group internally or another company. No offense, but most of this it putting lipstick on a pig. There's no cure for laziness or bad intent. Don't waste your time with a bad boss.

jenscow 9y ago
Exactly. Your boss isn't doing their job, so "fire" them (get a new one).
Balgair 9y ago
My adviser in grad school was like this. Thanks for the validation.
MrZongle2 9y ago
"If your boss isn't supporting you, GTFO." You beat me to it. Your job at your workplace is what you were hired for. Yes, that position's requirements and workload may change, but that is to be expected. What should not be expected is for you to do all that and do what your boss is failing to do in their own job. If you'll have to work extra hard to do your boss' work as well... why aren't you getting paid more? Or why aren't you the boss? It's clearly a sign to look elsewhere for employment, if you're not already. Unsupportive bosses are a sign of bad culture or that their bosses are likely equally unsupportive or clueless. Cut your losses.
- bungie4 9y ago
  My boss addresses this by buying staff a $1 store self-help book inscribed with "Push Yourself" in the front cover. Did you know Indeed will send you unlimited alerts on a daily basis! Great site :D
  - MrZongle2 9y ago
    I would imagine that more than one staff member had an idea where the boss could push that book....
mathattack 9y ago
You wrote my response for me. :-) No need to stick around for a bad boss. What’s paradoxical is the advice for building a cohort of advisors is valid even when you have a supportive boss.
dvanduzer 9y ago
It is divine to have this luxury. But changing your management under a bad boss is simply not that easy. My story: I was given the option to change my boss for the first time in 2006 or so. At this company, I'd already been promoted several times, ostensibly on merit, which involved a different boss each time. This event was different. The team was growing and we simply needed more people doing similar things. I decided my relationship with a (somewhat older) peer-turned-manager would be better off if I didn't report to him. Had he been a bad boss? Not really, but he wasn't a good boss. The new boss wasn't any better or worse. Old boss and I both spent the next year slightly miserable, but I wouldn't have known how miserable he was until he suddenly left the company. And then he hired me away a few months later. He also fired me a couple years later. Why? I was sick of the job, and I mostly deserved it; we were also at a smaller company now, where more egos were crammed into one room. I'd also literally been given a second job and a second title, complete with a second boss, who was also my boss's boss. (No pay increase, of course.) Was it more work than I could handle? Not exactly. Was there a mismatch between my responsibility and my power? Absolutely. Did losing this job damage my career? Not in the long run, and I learned far more valuable lessons about the need to simply work differently with different people. I think stories like this are close to the best possible outcome when you have a bad boss. And I think the moral here, is that a Voltron Manager is something everyone should have regardless of how good their current manager may be.
- ptero 9y ago
  I would echo the comment you are responding to: if you have a bad direct boss, get out and work somewhere else. If you decide to stay, for example because you have golden handcuffs, make a clear decision on how long you have to / want to stick around and leave after that time elapses. If you cannot leave, understand why (e.g., does your resume feature COBOL as a top skill?) and try to fix this quickly. Having a mindset "I like working here, but I can find another job quickly if I have to" helps greatly in any job, e.g. by letting you take calculated risks at your job (and sleep well at night), which on success can give you great benefits. My 2c.
  - dvanduzer 9y ago
    This is all very good advice. It costs me nothing to recognize my privilege as I endorse it. edit: My story is about developing the opportunities to leave several different mediocre bosses, sometimes more than once! It really did work out for me, even when I made the decision to go back to the devil I knew. All of these mediocre bosses were well-intentioned former engineers and I have no lingering ill will toward any of them. The part I left out of the story, is that behind the scenes in all of this, was the layer of management above and around them. I was incredibly fortunate that a Voltron had sort of built itself around me. Other engineers I barely got to know, noticed my work. The executive overseeing the departments at both companies paid attention to what his reports were doing. He didn't want to listen to me lament every possible bit I ever might have to twiddle, but he was a significant guiding force in my career for years before I even realized it. It is possible to develop relationships like this, through good faith efforts. But I honestly don't know how I would pass along any advice about this, other than by being as honest as possible about what happened in my life. Essentially: Look Around.
megamindbrian2 9y ago
I'm glad the poster, posted their article instead of this knee jerk reaction. My manager is a good person. This team deserves good workers. This company deserves more support than knee-jerk reactions such as "If your manager is more inexperienced than you, QUIT!" This is why our grandparents think we have no company loyalty.
- y4mi 9y ago
  "company loyalty" ... in programming? are you serious? I hope for your sake that you aren't. If you are, you probably are already getting screwed and just don't know it yet. And it'll probably end with another disillusionment because the company sure as hell won't be loyal to you once the CEO can increase his exit-bonus by firing you.
  - tomerv 9y ago
    Not all programming jobs are the same, and not all software companies have the same culture. There are a lot of jobs outside the startup bubble, and outside the US. Europe has a much better workplace culture in general , and there is some loyalty between the worker and the workplace.
    - VonGallifrey 9y ago
      I would say that Company Loyalty is a dangerous thing. The Company isn't going to be Loyal to you. I happen to like my workplace, but I know that if the company is ever in trouble again they will fire me without hesitation. I survived 2 firing rounds already. I will not survive a 3rd one. I didn't quit till now because I was loyal, but I stayed because I was lucky. Some have decided to quit just before the firing rounds, because we all could see it coming. That is "disloyal", but they are now employed again. That may have been the better decision for them. All of this was in a European Company.
  - megamindbrian2 9y ago
    Thank you for touching on my deepest fears.
ocodia 9y ago
This is overly simplifying the issue. I work for an org that requires exactly this type of 'build your own manager' idea that is mentioned in the article. Sure, it's dysfunctional and has a lot of legacy problems (like most large public sector orgs), but the work is what compells me... irrespective of how good/bad my manager is. Basically: In some cases where you work and what you are working on trumps who you are working for and how much you are paid.
cwyers 9y ago
Life doesn't exist on one axis. If I compiled a list of every "if your company does X, quit" heuristic that has been heavily upvoted on HN and we all started following them we'd all be unemployed.
- InclinedPlane 9y ago
  Think so? And with so many unemployed tech workers you don't think tech companies would face an equal level of difficulty in having so many empty positions? If tech workers were more savvy and critical in terms of deciding where they work and what conditions they allow themselves to work under (e.g. crunch, bad management, etc.) the industry would be breaking its back to try to change things to hold onto and acquire talent.
ZeroGravitas 9y ago
Apparently this is common enough that there's a saying "People don't leave bad jobs, they leave bad bosses" and this is backed up by some surveys suggesting that bad bosses/supervisors are the reason for 75% of job leaving events and also the number 1 cause of unhappiness at work. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/people-dont-leave-bad-jobs-bosses-brigette-hyacinth https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/people-dont-leave-bad-jobs-bo...
HumanDrivenDev 9y ago
If your boss isn't supporting you, GTFO. Either to another group internally or another company. Not everyone here works in a tech-hub or even in a large company.
x0x0 9y ago
If your company doesn't care enough to have good management, they don't value you. I'd react accordingly.

jenscow 9y ago

Exactly. Your boss isn't doing their job, so "fire" them (get a new one).

Balgair 9y ago

My adviser in grad school was like this. Thanks for the validation.

MrZongle2 9y ago

"If your boss isn't supporting you, GTFO." You beat me to it. Your job at your workplace is what you were hired for. Yes, that position's requirements and workload may change, but that is to be expected. What should not be expected is for you to do all that and do what your boss is failing to do in their own job. If you'll have to work extra hard to do your boss' work as well... why aren't you getting paid more? Or why aren't you the boss? It's clearly a sign to look elsewhere for employment, if you're not already. Unsupportive bosses are a sign of bad culture or that their bosses are likely equally unsupportive or clueless. Cut your losses.

bungie4 9y ago
My boss addresses this by buying staff a $1 store self-help book inscribed with "Push Yourself" in the front cover. Did you know Indeed will send you unlimited alerts on a daily basis! Great site :D
- MrZongle2 9y ago
  I would imagine that more than one staff member had an idea where the boss could push that book....

mathattack 9y ago

You wrote my response for me. :-) No need to stick around for a bad boss. What’s paradoxical is the advice for building a cohort of advisors is valid even when you have a supportive boss.

dvanduzer 9y ago

It is divine to have this luxury. But changing your management under a bad boss is simply not that easy. My story: I was given the option to change my boss for the first time in 2006 or so. At this company, I'd already been promoted several times, ostensibly on merit, which involved a different boss each time. This event was different. The team was growing and we simply needed more people doing similar things. I decided my relationship with a (somewhat older) peer-turned-manager would be better off if I didn't report to him. Had he been a bad boss? Not really, but he wasn't a good boss. The new boss wasn't any better or worse. Old boss and I both spent the next year slightly miserable, but I wouldn't have known how miserable he was until he suddenly left the company. And then he hired me away a few months later. He also fired me a couple years later. Why? I was sick of the job, and I mostly deserved it; we were also at a smaller company now, where more egos were crammed into one room. I'd also literally been given a second job and a second title, complete with a second boss, who was also my boss's boss. (No pay increase, of course.) Was it more work than I could handle? Not exactly. Was there a mismatch between my responsibility and my power? Absolutely. Did losing this job damage my career? Not in the long run, and I learned far more valuable lessons about the need to simply work differently with different people. I think stories like this are close to the best possible outcome when you have a bad boss. And I think the moral here, is that a Voltron Manager is something everyone should have regardless of how good their current manager may be.

ptero 9y ago
I would echo the comment you are responding to: if you have a bad direct boss, get out and work somewhere else. If you decide to stay, for example because you have golden handcuffs, make a clear decision on how long you have to / want to stick around and leave after that time elapses. If you cannot leave, understand why (e.g., does your resume feature COBOL as a top skill?) and try to fix this quickly. Having a mindset "I like working here, but I can find another job quickly if I have to" helps greatly in any job, e.g. by letting you take calculated risks at your job (and sleep well at night), which on success can give you great benefits. My 2c.
- dvanduzer 9y ago
  This is all very good advice. It costs me nothing to recognize my privilege as I endorse it. edit: My story is about developing the opportunities to leave several different mediocre bosses, sometimes more than once! It really did work out for me, even when I made the decision to go back to the devil I knew. All of these mediocre bosses were well-intentioned former engineers and I have no lingering ill will toward any of them. The part I left out of the story, is that behind the scenes in all of this, was the layer of management above and around them. I was incredibly fortunate that a Voltron had sort of built itself around me. Other engineers I barely got to know, noticed my work. The executive overseeing the departments at both companies paid attention to what his reports were doing. He didn't want to listen to me lament every possible bit I ever might have to twiddle, but he was a significant guiding force in my career for years before I even realized it. It is possible to develop relationships like this, through good faith efforts. But I honestly don't know how I would pass along any advice about this, other than by being as honest as possible about what happened in my life. Essentially: Look Around.

megamindbrian2 9y ago

I'm glad the poster, posted their article instead of this knee jerk reaction. My manager is a good person. This team deserves good workers. This company deserves more support than knee-jerk reactions such as "If your manager is more inexperienced than you, QUIT!" This is why our grandparents think we have no company loyalty.

y4mi 9y ago
"company loyalty" ... in programming? are you serious? I hope for your sake that you aren't. If you are, you probably are already getting screwed and just don't know it yet. And it'll probably end with another disillusionment because the company sure as hell won't be loyal to you once the CEO can increase his exit-bonus by firing you.
- tomerv 9y ago
  Not all programming jobs are the same, and not all software companies have the same culture. There are a lot of jobs outside the startup bubble, and outside the US. Europe has a much better workplace culture in general , and there is some loyalty between the worker and the workplace.
  - VonGallifrey 9y ago
    I would say that Company Loyalty is a dangerous thing. The Company isn't going to be Loyal to you. I happen to like my workplace, but I know that if the company is ever in trouble again they will fire me without hesitation. I survived 2 firing rounds already. I will not survive a 3rd one. I didn't quit till now because I was loyal, but I stayed because I was lucky. Some have decided to quit just before the firing rounds, because we all could see it coming. That is "disloyal", but they are now employed again. That may have been the better decision for them. All of this was in a European Company.
- megamindbrian2 9y ago
  Thank you for touching on my deepest fears.

ocodia 9y ago

This is overly simplifying the issue. I work for an org that requires exactly this type of 'build your own manager' idea that is mentioned in the article. Sure, it's dysfunctional and has a lot of legacy problems (like most large public sector orgs), but the work is what compells me... irrespective of how good/bad my manager is. Basically: In some cases where you work and what you are working on trumps who you are working for and how much you are paid.

cwyers 9y ago

Life doesn't exist on one axis. If I compiled a list of every "if your company does X, quit" heuristic that has been heavily upvoted on HN and we all started following them we'd all be unemployed.

InclinedPlane 9y ago
Think so? And with so many unemployed tech workers you don't think tech companies would face an equal level of difficulty in having so many empty positions? If tech workers were more savvy and critical in terms of deciding where they work and what conditions they allow themselves to work under (e.g. crunch, bad management, etc.) the industry would be breaking its back to try to change things to hold onto and acquire talent.

ZeroGravitas 9y ago

Apparently this is common enough that there's a saying "People don't leave bad jobs, they leave bad bosses" and this is backed up by some surveys suggesting that bad bosses/supervisors are the reason for 75% of job leaving events and also the number 1 cause of unhappiness at work. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/people-dont-leave-bad-jobs-bosses-brigette-hyacinth https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/people-dont-leave-bad-jobs-bo...

HumanDrivenDev 9y ago

If your boss isn't supporting you, GTFO. Either to another group internally or another company. Not everyone here works in a tech-hub or even in a large company.

x0x0 9y ago

If your company doesn't care enough to have good management, they don't value you. I'd react accordingly.