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One thing I don't understand: why is building applications for people interested in local events a "perennial tarpit"? Does it have to do with having a limited

One thing I don't understand: why is building applications for people interested in local events a "perennial tarpit"? Does it have to do with having a limited market of potential users?

tptacek 19y ago
Presumably the same tar pit Craig Newmark is drowning in.
- jeremymims 19y ago
  As one who nearly drowned in that tar pit a few years back, I have few insights. 1) Your product needs to be an order of magnitude better than your competitors in order to get users to switch. There is a reason craigslist, despite its obvious flaws, has not had a serious competitor. 2) If your product is not an order of magnitude better, design will not make much of a difference. Usability can, but not as much as you'd think. Many companies have produced a better evite, but none have gained the traction they deserve. 3) Right now, if you count on local merchants to purchase advertising, you might as well wait until hell freezes over. There's a whole set of entrepreneurs in the world who don't understand the internet and took their hard earned money to open up small bricks-and-mortar stores. Go to a website like Yelp or Menupages (both have substantial local market page views). You'll find almost no local ads, despite the fact that local businesses stand to benefit enormously from purchasing them. I hope you figure it out. Someone has to rescue us from the mediocrity of most local websites. Might as well be you. :-)
  - DaniFong 19y ago
    On local merchants purchasing advertising, I think there's been poor adoption partly because it's difficult for advertisers to see the value and tell if it's working, and partly because it is currently absurdly hard to target local advertising.
DaniFong 19y ago
Our contention is that it's because it's easy to get wrong. To attract users one must simultaneously execute well on visual design, on formatting data in an easily understood format, and suggesting local events aptly, and most importantly on getting interesting local events posted in the first place. Monetization is a challenging problem too. In our opinion none of the existing players have really thought deeply about the problem, and most attempts are similar to what's out there. A good service will require a substantial rethinking. It's a hard problem, but one we're prepared to try to solve. We want to help people get out more.
- rantfoil 19y ago
  There is nothing stopping you from creating it with or without the validation of YC. You're right that just because it's been done doesn't mean you can't do it better and get it right. Would Yelp exist if they thought -- oh, darn, Citysearch seems to have the whole market, we'll never win. That being said, you should consider starting with a specific community you know, getting it in the hands of real users, and iterating like crazy. These things can't be developed in an intellectual vacuum. Best of luck!
  - DaniFong 19y ago
    We hear you. There are advantages besides proximity to investors to siting in the bay area. San Francisco and Berkeley are wonderfully vibrant communities.

One thing I don't understand: why is building applications for people interested in local events a "perennial tarpit"? Does it have to do with having a limited market of potential users?

tptacek 19y ago

Presumably the same tar pit Craig Newmark is drowning in.

jeremymims 19y ago
As one who nearly drowned in that tar pit a few years back, I have few insights. 1) Your product needs to be an order of magnitude better than your competitors in order to get users to switch. There is a reason craigslist, despite its obvious flaws, has not had a serious competitor. 2) If your product is not an order of magnitude better, design will not make much of a difference. Usability can, but not as much as you'd think. Many companies have produced a better evite, but none have gained the traction they deserve. 3) Right now, if you count on local merchants to purchase advertising, you might as well wait until hell freezes over. There's a whole set of entrepreneurs in the world who don't understand the internet and took their hard earned money to open up small bricks-and-mortar stores. Go to a website like Yelp or Menupages (both have substantial local market page views). You'll find almost no local ads, despite the fact that local businesses stand to benefit enormously from purchasing them. I hope you figure it out. Someone has to rescue us from the mediocrity of most local websites. Might as well be you. :-)
- DaniFong 19y ago
  On local merchants purchasing advertising, I think there's been poor adoption partly because it's difficult for advertisers to see the value and tell if it's working, and partly because it is currently absurdly hard to target local advertising.

DaniFong 19y ago

Our contention is that it's because it's easy to get wrong. To attract users one must simultaneously execute well on visual design, on formatting data in an easily understood format, and suggesting local events aptly, and most importantly on getting interesting local events posted in the first place. Monetization is a challenging problem too. In our opinion none of the existing players have really thought deeply about the problem, and most attempts are similar to what's out there. A good service will require a substantial rethinking. It's a hard problem, but one we're prepared to try to solve. We want to help people get out more.

rantfoil 19y ago
There is nothing stopping you from creating it with or without the validation of YC. You're right that just because it's been done doesn't mean you can't do it better and get it right. Would Yelp exist if they thought -- oh, darn, Citysearch seems to have the whole market, we'll never win. That being said, you should consider starting with a specific community you know, getting it in the hands of real users, and iterating like crazy. These things can't be developed in an intellectual vacuum. Best of luck!
- DaniFong 19y ago
  We hear you. There are advantages besides proximity to investors to siting in the bay area. San Francisco and Berkeley are wonderfully vibrant communities.