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I can't agree more with this. Robert Anton Wilson's books are extremely readable, entertaining, and will definitely help you see a new perspective. For programm

by dx7tnt 9y ago

I can't agree more with this. Robert Anton Wilson's books are extremely readable, entertaining, and will definitely help you see a new perspective. For programmers and tech people I'd recommend RAW above Godel, Escher, Bach, for example. One of his many intriguing ideas, borrowed from Alfred Korzybski, is that "The Map is Not the Territory". Always know that whatever map or idea you have is only ever, at best, a fragmentary and limited version of whatever in the objective world it's meant to represent. Kudos.

chubot 9y ago
Hm I've never heard of RAW, but I will check out his work based on this thread. From what I see here, if you like his ideas, you might also like the books of Nassim Taleb (Black Swan, etc.) He has a style that rubs some people the wrong way, but I believe his ideas are the kind that can "change your life". I have been a bit obsessed with the idea that "the map is not the territory". I think it's because I grew up with some strong mental models that turned out not to be true. I used Google and found that I mentioned it at least 3 times on HN, going back years: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15866856 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15866856 -- Programmers should learn a little philosophy https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7074831 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7074831 -- With regard to Taleb, "I share Taleb's problem with models". I compare him to Nate Silver. I liked Silver's book very much at the time, and saw a lot of parallels in "learning about the world". (But I have since become disappointed with Silver.) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7913435 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7913435 -- Static typing doesn't prevent the important bugs. Static types are a map; they're not the territory -- which is runtime behavior, interaction with the end user, interaction with the world. I still have this rant a brewing: you cannot learn ANYTHING about the world if you don't actually run your program! Of course, most people who use static types do run their programs. But it's not a strawman; there's an extreme solipsistic school of "modeling with types" where programmers try not to run their programs and instead rely on the compiler. I suppose this may be effective for some very limited kinds of software with small interfaces to "the world" (which includes hardware), but IMO it's the wrong default. You can't learn anything about hardware without running your program, let alone end users!
personlurking 9y ago
"The Map is Not the Territory" is a phrase that reminds me of a Jorge Borges story, via Baurdrillard's Simulacra and Simulation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulacra_and_Simulation#Analogies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulacra_and_Simulation#Analo...

by dx7tnt 9y ago

chubot 9y ago

Hm I've never heard of RAW, but I will check out his work based on this thread. From what I see here, if you like his ideas, you might also like the books of Nassim Taleb (Black Swan, etc.) He has a style that rubs some people the wrong way, but I believe his ideas are the kind that can "change your life". I have been a bit obsessed with the idea that "the map is not the territory". I think it's because I grew up with some strong mental models that turned out not to be true. I used Google and found that I mentioned it at least 3 times on HN, going back years: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15866856 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15866856 -- Programmers should learn a little philosophy https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7074831 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7074831 -- With regard to Taleb, "I share Taleb's problem with models". I compare him to Nate Silver. I liked Silver's book very much at the time, and saw a lot of parallels in "learning about the world". (But I have since become disappointed with Silver.) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7913435 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7913435 -- Static typing doesn't prevent the important bugs. Static types are a map; they're not the territory -- which is runtime behavior, interaction with the end user, interaction with the world. I still have this rant a brewing: you cannot learn ANYTHING about the world if you don't actually run your program! Of course, most people who use static types do run their programs. But it's not a strawman; there's an extreme solipsistic school of "modeling with types" where programmers try not to run their programs and instead rely on the compiler. I suppose this may be effective for some very limited kinds of software with small interfaces to "the world" (which includes hardware), but IMO it's the wrong default. You can't learn anything about hardware without running your program, let alone end users!

personlurking 9y ago

"The Map is Not the Territory" is a phrase that reminds me of a Jorge Borges story, via Baurdrillard's Simulacra and Simulation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulacra_and_Simulation#Analogies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulacra_and_Simulation#Analo...