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Some things to note as a seattleite: Just because rent is decreasing on the high end doesnt mean it’s decreasing on the low end apartments. Apartments are bui

Some things to note as a seattleite: Just because rent is decreasing on the high end doesnt mean it’s decreasing on the low end apartments. Apartments are built to a less restrictive code than condos. There aren’t many condos being built in seattle from reading other articles. Similarly there’s much debate about building more homes / townhomes / improving transit. Amazon supposedly had a hiring freeze recently, and close by (in SLU) I’ve seen folks dancing with “now leasing” signs.

refurb 9y ago
Just because rent is decreasing on the high end doesnt mean it’s decreasing on the low end apartments. There is a knock-on effect although depending on the spread it might be small. Ontario (Canada) just raised minimum wage by 20%+ in one shot to $15/hr. Lots of drama happening now as business owners try to adjust. What I found interesting is that workers who were making $15/hr before the increase are now asking for a raise. It was a restaurant where the front-end made $15 and the dish washers $12. Now the front end says "I should be making more than the dish washers" and it goes all the way up the chain.
- DaiPlusPlus 9y ago
  But can those restaurant workers now comfortably (<33% of take-home) afford their rent?
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- dvanduzer 9y ago
  The psychology of relative status garners a lot of attention to understand inequality. Of course there is backlash to front-of-house folks seeing their relative status decrease, despite the fact that nothing has changed for them. A difficult, but crucial adaptation needs to happen in a wide variety of industries: The people working the less glamorous, less visible, but equally crucial roles in operating these businesses should have been treated as peers / relative equals all along. The converse is also true in software engineering. Questions like whether programming is "more difficult" than graphic design are largely irrelevant. Humans will always be playing status games, but denigrating labor based on some perceived skill level is a habit we should actively be trying to get rid of. Meanwhile... > There is a knock-on effect although depending on the spread it might be small. Can you provide more specific detail where knock-on effects like this have been observed? It's nearly guaranteed that a decrease on low end rents will be vanishingly small. Margins can only go so low, which is why developers are attracted to luxury projects in the first place. (Likewise, a million dollar paycut from a CEO can only raise 480 person-hour-dollars in wages. But those margins matter a hell of a lot more for the line worker's lifestyle than upper management's.)
  - zeveb 9y ago
    > Of course there is backlash to front-of-house folks seeing their relative status decrease, despite the fact that nothing has changed for them. Well, their purchasing power is about to go down because when they go out to eat they're going to be paying for $15/hr dishwashers instead of $12/hr dishwashers. > A difficult, but crucial adaptation needs to happen in a wide variety of industries: The people working the less glamorous, less visible, but equally crucial roles in operating these businesses should have been treated as peers / relative equals all along. But they're not really. A dishwasher needs to be able to scrub dishes, load & unload a mechanical dishwasher, show up more-or-less on time, not get into fights with the other employees — that's about it (incidentally, I know whereof I speak: my first job was washing dishes). The front-of-house staff need to speak the local language, be polite & friendly to customers, have good memories, have attention to detail, be able to manage relatively complex situations, be reliable &c. It's a very different — and rarer — skillset. You don't even really need to have a functional IQ to be a successful dishwasher; you need to be reasonably sociable & quick on your feet to be a successful waiter or maître d'hôtel. It's eminently reasonable and fair that a job anyone can do will pay less than a job fewer people can do.
    - dvanduzer 9y ago
      > It's eminently reasonable and fair that a job anyone can do will pay less than a job fewer people can do. No, it isn't. You don't have to agree in any substantial way with anything else Marx says, to recognize that "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs" is eminently reasonable and fair. Everything you're saying to glorify front-of-house roles is also true of back-of-house roles. True, the best possible server in a restaurant can improve the bottom line X% more than the best possible dishwasher can. But comparing the worst possible dishwasher with the worst possible server is also important. Can you say with any confidence which "problem employee" will have a larger negative effect on the bottom line? Probably not. What if it's just a slightly below average dishwasher? What if the server is "only" sexually harassing coworkers a little bit? Gauging the range of human performance by the wages they use for sustenance is stupid, but apparently necessary. > Well, their purchasing power is about to go down because when they go out to eat they're going to be paying for $15/hr dishwashers instead of $12/hr dishwashers. Again, a claim missing some crucial substance. How much is their purchasing power going to go down? Will the price of a hamburger or an apron really go up more than a couple of pennies?

refurb 9y ago

Just because rent is decreasing on the high end doesnt mean it’s decreasing on the low end apartments. There is a knock-on effect although depending on the spread it might be small. Ontario (Canada) just raised minimum wage by 20%+ in one shot to $15/hr. Lots of drama happening now as business owners try to adjust. What I found interesting is that workers who were making $15/hr before the increase are now asking for a raise. It was a restaurant where the front-end made $15 and the dish washers $12. Now the front end says "I should be making more than the dish washers" and it goes all the way up the chain.

DaiPlusPlus 9y ago
But can those restaurant workers now comfortably (<33% of take-home) afford their rent?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
dvanduzer 9y ago
The psychology of relative status garners a lot of attention to understand inequality. Of course there is backlash to front-of-house folks seeing their relative status decrease, despite the fact that nothing has changed for them. A difficult, but crucial adaptation needs to happen in a wide variety of industries: The people working the less glamorous, less visible, but equally crucial roles in operating these businesses should have been treated as peers / relative equals all along. The converse is also true in software engineering. Questions like whether programming is "more difficult" than graphic design are largely irrelevant. Humans will always be playing status games, but denigrating labor based on some perceived skill level is a habit we should actively be trying to get rid of. Meanwhile... > There is a knock-on effect although depending on the spread it might be small. Can you provide more specific detail where knock-on effects like this have been observed? It's nearly guaranteed that a decrease on low end rents will be vanishingly small. Margins can only go so low, which is why developers are attracted to luxury projects in the first place. (Likewise, a million dollar paycut from a CEO can only raise 480 person-hour-dollars in wages. But those margins matter a hell of a lot more for the line worker's lifestyle than upper management's.)
- zeveb 9y ago
  > Of course there is backlash to front-of-house folks seeing their relative status decrease, despite the fact that nothing has changed for them. Well, their purchasing power is about to go down because when they go out to eat they're going to be paying for $15/hr dishwashers instead of $12/hr dishwashers. > A difficult, but crucial adaptation needs to happen in a wide variety of industries: The people working the less glamorous, less visible, but equally crucial roles in operating these businesses should have been treated as peers / relative equals all along. But they're not really. A dishwasher needs to be able to scrub dishes, load & unload a mechanical dishwasher, show up more-or-less on time, not get into fights with the other employees — that's about it (incidentally, I know whereof I speak: my first job was washing dishes). The front-of-house staff need to speak the local language, be polite & friendly to customers, have good memories, have attention to detail, be able to manage relatively complex situations, be reliable &c. It's a very different — and rarer — skillset. You don't even really need to have a functional IQ to be a successful dishwasher; you need to be reasonably sociable & quick on your feet to be a successful waiter or maître d'hôtel. It's eminently reasonable and fair that a job anyone can do will pay less than a job fewer people can do.
  - dvanduzer 9y ago
    > It's eminently reasonable and fair that a job anyone can do will pay less than a job fewer people can do. No, it isn't. You don't have to agree in any substantial way with anything else Marx says, to recognize that "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs" is eminently reasonable and fair. Everything you're saying to glorify front-of-house roles is also true of back-of-house roles. True, the best possible server in a restaurant can improve the bottom line X% more than the best possible dishwasher can. But comparing the worst possible dishwasher with the worst possible server is also important. Can you say with any confidence which "problem employee" will have a larger negative effect on the bottom line? Probably not. What if it's just a slightly below average dishwasher? What if the server is "only" sexually harassing coworkers a little bit? Gauging the range of human performance by the wages they use for sustenance is stupid, but apparently necessary. > Well, their purchasing power is about to go down because when they go out to eat they're going to be paying for $15/hr dishwashers instead of $12/hr dishwashers. Again, a claim missing some crucial substance. How much is their purchasing power going to go down? Will the price of a hamburger or an apron really go up more than a couple of pennies?