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Sister is a travel nurse. She does not prepare for interviews and typically has several a year. Her entire interview process goes: call the agency and tell them
by firstplacelast 9y ago
Sister is a travel nurse. She does not prepare for interviews and typically has several a year. Her entire interview process goes: call the agency and tell them she is looking for a new position, have one to several 30-45minute phone calls with hiring managers at the hospitals she is interested in (she actually took one once in the middle of a wine tasting - and got the job), then wait to hear back.
That's what it's like for many other in-demand and well paying industries (she's mid-20's and makes low six figures in San Jose). Stop pretending like everyone else has to deal with the same bullshit as you, hiring in tech is BROKEN. Other industries do it better.
People's lives are dependent on how well she does her job. Are the hoops you have to jump through justifiable for how "important" your job is?
- sjg007 9y agoRight but she is licensed, this is the main issue.
- barry-cotter 9y agoIndeed. If it was illegal to work as a programmer without a Master’s degree in Computer Science with a GPA above 3.0 the interview process would not look like the current one.
- sidlls 9y agoThe industry wouldn't look the same, either: it wouldn't be nearly as profitable or widespread as it has become, and nobody but CS academics would care about it.
- bitL 9y agoAll you need to do is to enforce functional programming everywhere and only CS academics would stay ;-)
- Apocryphon 9y agoOn the other hand, perhaps the quality of code would go up?
- 35bge57dtjku 9y agoI've seen too many projects created by people with higher degrees to bet on that.
- knicholes 9y agoAfter personally seeing two large, recent acquisitions, I can attest that code quality != business value.
- sidlls 9y agoI've been through an acquisition or two in my day (on the acquiring side). I'd echo knicholes' comment about that and go further: in my experience code quality and degree credential don't seem to have any relationship.
- pjmlp 9y agoAnd it would be much better, we would stop having pseudo-"engineers".
- barry-cotter 9y agoQuite, we should also eliminate nurses. The minimum qualification to work in healthcare should be a medical degree, just like we shouldn’t allow any car that’s worse in an accident than a Tesla on the road.
- pjmlp 9y agoMost European countries require a 4 year degree for nurses, where the first two years are kind of shared with medical degree.
- 35bge57dtjku 9y agoAFAIK, most or all US schools have required a 4 year degree for a long time now.
- barry-cotter 9y agoKind of shared? Nursing https://www.ucc.ie/en/ck710/ https://www.ucc.ie/en/ck710/ Medicine https://www.ucc.ie/en/ck701/ https://www.ucc.ie/en/ck701/ There is not one single shared course between the two degrees. If you can find a course shared between medical and nursing students in all of Europe I'd be surprised.
- pjmlp 9y agoPortugal, Spain and Greece as the examples I know. Nursing is taught at many universities with medical degree, first and second year students tend to share some of the lectures. Also, because of that, people with nursing degree are able to acquire a medical degree by taking the extra lectures and exams afterwards.
- 9y ago
- rimliu 9y agoThe industry is different, that is another issue. Programmers do not deal with just the small variations of the mostly the same code base (human body) which broke down (got ill) for some reason, but most bugs have pretty well documented symptoms and prescriptions how to fix them.
- drewmate 9y agoAs an aside, what is the range for "low six figures?" I hear this term a lot, and it seems ambiguous to me. If I hear "low 90's" I can reasonably assume between 90-93, but what does low six figures mean? Is it 100k-103k as an analogue to the 90's example? Or is 100k-300k? If the former, than it's probably most useful just to say 100k. If the latter, then that range is too wide to mean anything.
- geebee 9y agoI agree with you that as a term “low six figures” is odd. 300k should mean low six figures. In the vernacular, with regards to salary, it is used to describe a range between 100 and 200k. So low six figures tends to mean closer to 100k. That’s very consistent in usage. It is a little odd though, I would agree about that.
- 35bge57dtjku 9y ago> hiring in tech is BROKEN. Other industries do it better. Can you explain how other industries do it better and come up with a better, plausible, non-fantastical way to interview programmers? I'd love to know how to interview people "better", but it still has to be something where I can later present evidence that my decision is based on, in some kind of report. It would have to allow multiple people at my company to interact with a candidate in a half day or less. Copying what another industry does would be great, if it worked, because it'd help convince people it was a good method to try out. > Are the hoops you have to jump through justifiable for how "important" your job is? I never thought a 1 hour phone screen and a few hours onsite was particularly onerous, and based on how much the job pays, it seems well worth it. > People's lives are dependent on how well she does her job. I'm not sure why you seem to think that saving lives correlates with strictness of interviewing, especially with the 2 jobs being so drastically different.
- danesparza 9y agoHiring in tech is not broken. Hiring for a moving target (the tech business changes very quickly) with sub-par recruiting staff is difficult at best.