5 ms·

Ethereum is not based on proof of stake. Bitcoin proved that global cryptocurrency is absolutely sustainable, it just can’t be cheap.

Fnoord 9y ago
> Bitcoin proved that global cryptocurrency is absolutely sustainable It has not. * Transactions don't scale: they're are expensive, and not instant. * There are practically no ways to spend Bitcoins in the physical world. * The electricity costs of mining are not sustainable by mankind. Although some people in China want you to believe otherwise.
- keymone 9y ago
  > Transactions don't scale: they're are expensive, and not instant blockchain has limited scalability, second layer doesn't. also blockchain transactions were never supposed to be instant. in fact nothing is instant, check this thing called physics. > practically no ways to spend Bitcoins in the physical world there are plenty > electricity costs of mining are not sustainable by mankind bitcoin is not even a blip in total world energy spending and less than that in total world energy production. also if you check the dictionary for word sustainable: > able to be maintained at a certain rate or level. miners are profitable at current difficulty at current price of bitcoin. if price goes down - less efficient miners will go out of business and difficulty will decrease until balance is achieved. bitcoin is sustainable by design.
  - Fnoord 9y ago
    First of all, perhaps you want to use proper capitalization in your posts. It adds to the readability of your post. > blockchain has limited scalability, second layer doesn't. also blockchain transactions were never supposed to be instant. Of course it wasn't supposed to be instant. That's why its a shit system to use as currency just like gold bars are a shit currency cause one has to drag them from the mine to the bank to the store. This Bitcoin thing was meant to be a currency, right? I guess you're talking about Lightning Network though which Bitcoin evangelists appear to market as the Second Coming of Christ. Well, it isn't active yet, and it isn't part of Bitcoin ie. it isn't "Bitcoin". So... I was right. > there are plenty Not really. Many have been removed lately. There were Bitcoin debit cards. Well, they got revoked. Steam? Doesn't accept Bitcoins anymore due to high transaction costs. And those are just a few examples. > in fact nothing is instant, check this thing called physics. That's odd. I just put money on my debit card from my bank and it took like a minute. And I consider that slow! If I buy something from a store, which I did today, its instant enough that I can put my bank card in my wallet and move on. That's why I call it instant. The fact it isn't instant, is true, but it is nowhere near the latency of Bitcoin. And Bitcoin's latency is nowhere near my bank to debit card transaction. My statements regarding slow (and expensive) transactions were true. > bitcoin is not even a blip in total world energy spending and less than that in total world energy production. Yes, when it consumes more energy than my entire country, it is. Plus, when it is thin air we're discussing, it is. > also if you check the dictionary for word sustainable: How about you look up the word in your dictionary, called environment? > bitcoin is sustainable by design. Circulus in probando. Wake me up when I can pay BTC at the same places where I can pay with EUR. I'll even do a concession! Wake me up when a United States resident can pay BTC at the same places they can pay with USD.
    - keymone 9y ago
      Your post is very uninformed. Transaction speed is a function of timestamping mechanism of the consensus protocol. If that’s the only measure you decide whether the currency is shit - fair, don’t use it. FWIW cross-bank transfers aren’t instant too, shall I give you my credentials so you could promptly dispense of all the worthless shit money you have? Lightning network is active on mainnet, not sure what exactly batted that information from reaching you. Revokation of debit cards had nothing to do with bitcoin and there are plenty of companies that still offer them. That some merchants choose to drop support because low value transactions aren’t economical is unfortunate but also temporary. > when it consumes more energy than my entire country, it is Nope, still not a blip. So yourself a favor and spend more than 5 seconds to inform yourself on the topic. > How about you look up the word in your dictionary, called environment? You’re conflating energy use with energy source, nobody is burning oil to mine bitcoins - those guys are out of business. > wake me up when That explains everything - instead of informing yourself on the topic you just went to sleep. Bitcoin debit cards mostly cover those requirements btw.
      - Fnoord 9y ago
        > If that’s the only measure you decide whether the currency is shit - fair, don’t use it. Reductio ad absurdum. I mentioned several reasons. > Lightning network is active on mainnet, not sure what exactly batted that information from reaching you. Why are Bitcoin transactions still slow? > Revokation of debit cards had nothing to do with bitcoin and there are plenty of companies that still offer them. Of course it is related to Bitcoin. Please link 5 of these currently valid Bitcoin debit card products. If they're so rampantly available, surely you can link 5 easily? > That some merchants choose to drop support because low value transactions aren’t economical is unfortunate but also temporary. Yeah, life is temporary as well rolleyes. This is a non-argument. You cannot tell when the problem is solved, and its a severe issue for adoption of Bitcoin. > Nope, still not a blip. So yourself a favor and spend more than 5 seconds to inform yourself on the topic. Yet, it is, and I can't be bothered to spend time to reply to the rest of your ad hominem. > You’re conflating energy use with energy source, nobody is burning oil to mine bitcoins - those guys are out of business. I didn't mention oil (ever heard of Co2?). I mentioned that power source has impact on the environment because that is reality 101. If I have 100 buckets of sustainable water, and I piss in 90 of them, then the rest of the world only got 10 buckets of sustainable water left for general consumption. Which is a loss of sustainable energy. So using unnecessarily vast amounts of energy is a loss for the environment. Of course this isn't in the interest of miners or Bitcoin evangelist like yourself. > That explains everything That explains nothing, its just one of your ad hominem fallacies which tells the reader something about you, not me. Instead, this explains everything: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-level_marketing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-level_marketing Dear reader, please don't fall for the Bitcoin scam. Read the above link instead, and notice the parallels with the Bitcoin/cryptocurrency mania. Specifically, the parallel with ICO and early adopters of cryptocurrencies.
mhluongo 9y ago
Not sure why this is getting down voted. It's true- Ethereum is still based on PoW, and hasn't started the transition to PoS (Casper's FFG is still in dev).

Fnoord 9y ago

> Bitcoin proved that global cryptocurrency is absolutely sustainable It has not. * Transactions don't scale: they're are expensive, and not instant. * There are practically no ways to spend Bitcoins in the physical world. * The electricity costs of mining are not sustainable by mankind. Although some people in China want you to believe otherwise.

keymone 9y ago
> Transactions don't scale: they're are expensive, and not instant blockchain has limited scalability, second layer doesn't. also blockchain transactions were never supposed to be instant. in fact nothing is instant, check this thing called physics. > practically no ways to spend Bitcoins in the physical world there are plenty > electricity costs of mining are not sustainable by mankind bitcoin is not even a blip in total world energy spending and less than that in total world energy production. also if you check the dictionary for word sustainable: > able to be maintained at a certain rate or level. miners are profitable at current difficulty at current price of bitcoin. if price goes down - less efficient miners will go out of business and difficulty will decrease until balance is achieved. bitcoin is sustainable by design.
- Fnoord 9y ago
  First of all, perhaps you want to use proper capitalization in your posts. It adds to the readability of your post. > blockchain has limited scalability, second layer doesn't. also blockchain transactions were never supposed to be instant. Of course it wasn't supposed to be instant. That's why its a shit system to use as currency just like gold bars are a shit currency cause one has to drag them from the mine to the bank to the store. This Bitcoin thing was meant to be a currency, right? I guess you're talking about Lightning Network though which Bitcoin evangelists appear to market as the Second Coming of Christ. Well, it isn't active yet, and it isn't part of Bitcoin ie. it isn't "Bitcoin". So... I was right. > there are plenty Not really. Many have been removed lately. There were Bitcoin debit cards. Well, they got revoked. Steam? Doesn't accept Bitcoins anymore due to high transaction costs. And those are just a few examples. > in fact nothing is instant, check this thing called physics. That's odd. I just put money on my debit card from my bank and it took like a minute. And I consider that slow! If I buy something from a store, which I did today, its instant enough that I can put my bank card in my wallet and move on. That's why I call it instant. The fact it isn't instant, is true, but it is nowhere near the latency of Bitcoin. And Bitcoin's latency is nowhere near my bank to debit card transaction. My statements regarding slow (and expensive) transactions were true. > bitcoin is not even a blip in total world energy spending and less than that in total world energy production. Yes, when it consumes more energy than my entire country, it is. Plus, when it is thin air we're discussing, it is. > also if you check the dictionary for word sustainable: How about you look up the word in your dictionary, called environment? > bitcoin is sustainable by design. Circulus in probando. Wake me up when I can pay BTC at the same places where I can pay with EUR. I'll even do a concession! Wake me up when a United States resident can pay BTC at the same places they can pay with USD.
  - keymone 9y ago
    Your post is very uninformed. Transaction speed is a function of timestamping mechanism of the consensus protocol. If that’s the only measure you decide whether the currency is shit - fair, don’t use it. FWIW cross-bank transfers aren’t instant too, shall I give you my credentials so you could promptly dispense of all the worthless shit money you have? Lightning network is active on mainnet, not sure what exactly batted that information from reaching you. Revokation of debit cards had nothing to do with bitcoin and there are plenty of companies that still offer them. That some merchants choose to drop support because low value transactions aren’t economical is unfortunate but also temporary. > when it consumes more energy than my entire country, it is Nope, still not a blip. So yourself a favor and spend more than 5 seconds to inform yourself on the topic. > How about you look up the word in your dictionary, called environment? You’re conflating energy use with energy source, nobody is burning oil to mine bitcoins - those guys are out of business. > wake me up when That explains everything - instead of informing yourself on the topic you just went to sleep. Bitcoin debit cards mostly cover those requirements btw.
    - Fnoord 9y ago
      > If that’s the only measure you decide whether the currency is shit - fair, don’t use it. Reductio ad absurdum. I mentioned several reasons. > Lightning network is active on mainnet, not sure what exactly batted that information from reaching you. Why are Bitcoin transactions still slow? > Revokation of debit cards had nothing to do with bitcoin and there are plenty of companies that still offer them. Of course it is related to Bitcoin. Please link 5 of these currently valid Bitcoin debit card products. If they're so rampantly available, surely you can link 5 easily? > That some merchants choose to drop support because low value transactions aren’t economical is unfortunate but also temporary. Yeah, life is temporary as well rolleyes. This is a non-argument. You cannot tell when the problem is solved, and its a severe issue for adoption of Bitcoin. > Nope, still not a blip. So yourself a favor and spend more than 5 seconds to inform yourself on the topic. Yet, it is, and I can't be bothered to spend time to reply to the rest of your ad hominem. > You’re conflating energy use with energy source, nobody is burning oil to mine bitcoins - those guys are out of business. I didn't mention oil (ever heard of Co2?). I mentioned that power source has impact on the environment because that is reality 101. If I have 100 buckets of sustainable water, and I piss in 90 of them, then the rest of the world only got 10 buckets of sustainable water left for general consumption. Which is a loss of sustainable energy. So using unnecessarily vast amounts of energy is a loss for the environment. Of course this isn't in the interest of miners or Bitcoin evangelist like yourself. > That explains everything That explains nothing, its just one of your ad hominem fallacies which tells the reader something about you, not me. Instead, this explains everything: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-level_marketing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-level_marketing Dear reader, please don't fall for the Bitcoin scam. Read the above link instead, and notice the parallels with the Bitcoin/cryptocurrency mania. Specifically, the parallel with ICO and early adopters of cryptocurrencies.

mhluongo 9y ago

Not sure why this is getting down voted. It's true- Ethereum is still based on PoW, and hasn't started the transition to PoS (Casper's FFG is still in dev).