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The most significant points (that weren't discussed ad nauseam in previous discussions over the last few years) from the article: "About 2,000 people listed th

The most significant points (that weren't discussed ad nauseam in previous discussions over the last few years) from the article: "About 2,000 people listed their homes but never rented to tourists." The percentage is artificially skewed by the effects of eliminating stale listings, and the real effect attributable to regulation is less significant than the headline suggests. "San Francisco charges a $250 registration fee plus a $90 business registration fee for all hosts." This is a scarier prospect for AirBnB and other companies. If $340 is really enough to scare off a significant percentage of people, how much are these hosts making?

azurezyq 9y ago
> Tenants and condo owners who can’t sublet: When renters register as hosts, the city notifies their building owner. “We think a good number of folks might meet city eligibility requirements, but may be renters with ‘no subletting clauses’ in their leases,” Guy said. Similarly, some condo associations bar subletting. I'd suggest this one of the major killing factors. Many sf units are basically condo titles, which cc&r usually forbid Airbnb.
Bluestrike2 9y ago
It's more that the fees serve as a small barrier to entry for new hosts. While you can likely expect to make that initial cost back up after a few bookings, the fees—along with the paperwork and process associated with them—are a huge change from the earlier status quo. Before, you could have reasonably chosen to list your property on AirBnB on a whim with no financial risk. Now, it's a much more involved decision that requires spending money up front. I'd love to see some numbers on how many hosts de-listed after a short while without any bookings or stopped after one or two at the most. It seems like a given that those kinds of hosts are pretty much gone now.
- arkadiyt 9y ago
  > along with the paperwork and process associated with them We (airbnb) have integrated with the city for registration requirements so that you can do it from the web UI. Go into the "Manage Your Space" section and click the "Registration" tab. I work on appsec and did the security shepherding for this integration.
  - Bluestrike2 9y ago
    That's definitely a solution for easing your member's burden. And that kind of integration is surprisingly citizen-focused for any local government red tape. Though I do wonder what the impact is on potential new hosts when they're in the "maybe I will, I maybe I won't" phase. It strikes me as more of a PR problem: convince potential hosts in SF that Airbnb makes compliance painless—fees aside—so they can get to the point where they're willing to pony up and try it for themselves in light of the new rules' publicity.
  - knocte 9y ago
    If the integration is so friendly, then you should consider being able to register by using the amount received by the first booking(s), to avoid having to put money upfront.
    - bonesss 9y ago
      It may be doable, it might also run into issues as your're advertising and charging for a product you're not licensed to sell. I mean this is, in part, a business registration fee we're talking about... are there other regulated businesses where you can charge first and get licensed second? Trash disposal, flammable material production, health care services? Liquor wholesaling? Gynecological services? Radioactive material transport? ... From a regulatory standpoint the entire point of licensing actors is to deny poorly behaving actors licenses. If AriBnB were facilitating the sale in expectation of a license being granted then AirBnB is trying to act as a regulatory body, a no-no, and at the very least liable for any problems with the transaction or host, a no-no for AirBnB.
      - Kliment 9y ago
        That's not what's being proposed, as I understand it. Rather, the poster is proposing that airbnb pay the registration fee for you, and then withhold it from bookings made through them after. There is no advertising and charging for a product you're not licensed to sell, it's more like the advance fees in a book publishing contract.
bsder 9y ago
> If $340 is really enough to scare off a significant percentage of people, how much are these hosts making? It's not the money. It's the fact that you will be on record and people can check up on you. All this tells me is that a huge chunk of the AirBnB folks actually knew when they were in violation of something and, now that they might get caught, have decided that AirBnB really isn't worth it anymore.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  Many years ago, the IRS didn’t require you to list the social security numbers of your dependents when claiming them on your taxes. Once the requirement was put into place, the number of fliers claiming dependents dropped dramatically. Trust but verify.
  - intrasight 9y ago
    >Trust but verify What is true of all human interactions is, not surprisingly, true here too.
- bonesss 9y ago
  > It's not the money. It's the fact that you will be on record and people can check up on you. And beyond the compliance checking here and now, it also means you're subject to and pre-registered for any and all forthcoming regulation. I think, though, it's only fair. If private rentals are gonna compete with hotels then private rentals need to start addressing some of the issues we have regulated mostly out of existence with how hotels used to be. Like having a registered business, or perhaps the right kind of insurance, or the right kinds of fire safety systems that are monitored on a schedule. Business ain't easy, and shortcuts are how we get unthinkable tragedies. It's only fair the economics of AirBnB hosts reflect that.
  - bsder 9y ago
    > I think, though, it's only fair. Oh, I agree. Things like "pest control" are really damn important to people living around you.

azurezyq 9y ago

> Tenants and condo owners who can’t sublet: When renters register as hosts, the city notifies their building owner. “We think a good number of folks might meet city eligibility requirements, but may be renters with ‘no subletting clauses’ in their leases,” Guy said. Similarly, some condo associations bar subletting. I'd suggest this one of the major killing factors. Many sf units are basically condo titles, which cc&r usually forbid Airbnb.

Bluestrike2 9y ago

It's more that the fees serve as a small barrier to entry for new hosts. While you can likely expect to make that initial cost back up after a few bookings, the fees—along with the paperwork and process associated with them—are a huge change from the earlier status quo. Before, you could have reasonably chosen to list your property on AirBnB on a whim with no financial risk. Now, it's a much more involved decision that requires spending money up front. I'd love to see some numbers on how many hosts de-listed after a short while without any bookings or stopped after one or two at the most. It seems like a given that those kinds of hosts are pretty much gone now.

arkadiyt 9y ago
> along with the paperwork and process associated with them We (airbnb) have integrated with the city for registration requirements so that you can do it from the web UI. Go into the "Manage Your Space" section and click the "Registration" tab. I work on appsec and did the security shepherding for this integration.
- Bluestrike2 9y ago
  That's definitely a solution for easing your member's burden. And that kind of integration is surprisingly citizen-focused for any local government red tape. Though I do wonder what the impact is on potential new hosts when they're in the "maybe I will, I maybe I won't" phase. It strikes me as more of a PR problem: convince potential hosts in SF that Airbnb makes compliance painless—fees aside—so they can get to the point where they're willing to pony up and try it for themselves in light of the new rules' publicity.
- knocte 9y ago
  If the integration is so friendly, then you should consider being able to register by using the amount received by the first booking(s), to avoid having to put money upfront.
  - bonesss 9y ago
    It may be doable, it might also run into issues as your're advertising and charging for a product you're not licensed to sell. I mean this is, in part, a business registration fee we're talking about... are there other regulated businesses where you can charge first and get licensed second? Trash disposal, flammable material production, health care services? Liquor wholesaling? Gynecological services? Radioactive material transport? ... From a regulatory standpoint the entire point of licensing actors is to deny poorly behaving actors licenses. If AriBnB were facilitating the sale in expectation of a license being granted then AirBnB is trying to act as a regulatory body, a no-no, and at the very least liable for any problems with the transaction or host, a no-no for AirBnB.
    - Kliment 9y ago
      That's not what's being proposed, as I understand it. Rather, the poster is proposing that airbnb pay the registration fee for you, and then withhold it from bookings made through them after. There is no advertising and charging for a product you're not licensed to sell, it's more like the advance fees in a book publishing contract.

bsder 9y ago

> If $340 is really enough to scare off a significant percentage of people, how much are these hosts making? It's not the money. It's the fact that you will be on record and people can check up on you. All this tells me is that a huge chunk of the AirBnB folks actually knew when they were in violation of something and, now that they might get caught, have decided that AirBnB really isn't worth it anymore.

toomuchtodo 9y ago
Many years ago, the IRS didn’t require you to list the social security numbers of your dependents when claiming them on your taxes. Once the requirement was put into place, the number of fliers claiming dependents dropped dramatically. Trust but verify.
- intrasight 9y ago
  >Trust but verify What is true of all human interactions is, not surprisingly, true here too.
bonesss 9y ago
> It's not the money. It's the fact that you will be on record and people can check up on you. And beyond the compliance checking here and now, it also means you're subject to and pre-registered for any and all forthcoming regulation. I think, though, it's only fair. If private rentals are gonna compete with hotels then private rentals need to start addressing some of the issues we have regulated mostly out of existence with how hotels used to be. Like having a registered business, or perhaps the right kind of insurance, or the right kinds of fire safety systems that are monitored on a schedule. Business ain't easy, and shortcuts are how we get unthinkable tragedies. It's only fair the economics of AirBnB hosts reflect that.
- bsder 9y ago
  > I think, though, it's only fair. Oh, I agree. Things like "pest control" are really damn important to people living around you.