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I feel like so many similar proposals tend to ignore how saturated our roads are, how expensive the road infrastructure maintenance is, and how fast people expe

by mgbmtl 9y ago

I feel like so many similar proposals tend to ignore how saturated our roads are, how expensive the road infrastructure maintenance is, and how fast people expect to drive (because of long commutes from endless suburbs). We need to find innovative ways to implement forms of collective transportation (rail or what not) in already dense areas. Rail/subways have already proven how effective they are. Autonomous vehicles are necessary to improve road safety, maybe they can help slightly reduce the amount space used by roads, but they won't solve most of the problems we have today on our unsustainable roads.

acranox 9y ago
They also seem to ignore people riding on bikes, and people walking around.
closeparen 9y ago
Unsustainable compared to what? New York is clearly demonstrating that it’s incapable of sustaining a subway, and it has just about the best conditions possible for such a project. You think a place that can’t even manage roads can swing a subway? Is it sustainable to all move closer together? Not if the residents of existing cities have anything to say about how those cities are governed. They don’t want the extra population.
- notatoad 9y ago
  unsustainable is an absolute, not a relative. A road network doesn't have to be unsustainable relative to anything in order for it to be full to capacity at and for there to be no room for any more roads, which is the situation New York finds itself in. It is physically impossible for NYC to have sustained substantial growth to their private vehicle infrastructure, hence "unsustainable". If they want to grow their transportation network, they need to do it via other modes. And i reject your assertion that New York has the best possible conditions for transportation infrastructure. A lack of space, a huge demand, and a corrupt mixture of local government and unions don't make for an idea development environment.
  - closeparen 9y ago
    Maintaining existing roads is certainly not beyond the economic capacity of the United States. It just costs more than you're willing to pay. That's valid, but the alternatives don't appear to be cheaper. New York also finds maintaining its subways in working order, something that's certainly physically possible, to cost more than it's willing to pay. High density and high transportation demand are prerequisites for having a public transit system at all. And what dense US city's government isn't corrupt or incompetent?

by mgbmtl 9y ago

acranox 9y ago

They also seem to ignore people riding on bikes, and people walking around.

closeparen 9y ago

Unsustainable compared to what? New York is clearly demonstrating that it’s incapable of sustaining a subway, and it has just about the best conditions possible for such a project. You think a place that can’t even manage roads can swing a subway? Is it sustainable to all move closer together? Not if the residents of existing cities have anything to say about how those cities are governed. They don’t want the extra population.

notatoad 9y ago
unsustainable is an absolute, not a relative. A road network doesn't have to be unsustainable relative to anything in order for it to be full to capacity at and for there to be no room for any more roads, which is the situation New York finds itself in. It is physically impossible for NYC to have sustained substantial growth to their private vehicle infrastructure, hence "unsustainable". If they want to grow their transportation network, they need to do it via other modes. And i reject your assertion that New York has the best possible conditions for transportation infrastructure. A lack of space, a huge demand, and a corrupt mixture of local government and unions don't make for an idea development environment.
- closeparen 9y ago
  Maintaining existing roads is certainly not beyond the economic capacity of the United States. It just costs more than you're willing to pay. That's valid, but the alternatives don't appear to be cheaper. New York also finds maintaining its subways in working order, something that's certainly physically possible, to cost more than it's willing to pay. High density and high transportation demand are prerequisites for having a public transit system at all. And what dense US city's government isn't corrupt or incompetent?