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> The song is in E major, yet G# major and A minor are not chords in that scale. Guitarists learning scales? I mean like the names of the notes rather than the

> The song is in E major, yet G# major and A minor are not chords in that scale. Guitarists learning scales? I mean like the names of the notes rather than the shapes they make on the neck? I am suggesting that knowledge of musical theory had no part in this at all. You need to think in the terms of an indie guitarist of average ability like Thom Yorke. Open, the fret after the one with the dot on, the next fret with a dot, now take your little finger off. That is how I learnt to play Creep in the mid-ninetees! That is how (non-classical) guitarists tend to learn, and why so many people can play guitar. > Firstly, no. All the white keys are consistently in one key, e.g. C major The equivalent, not the same as.

Joeboy 9y ago
> Guitarists learning scales? I mean like the names of the notes rather than the shapes they make on the neck? I'm probably not supposed to say this sort of thing here, but you're surely trolling.
- jimnotgym 9y ago
  I think I may have got the tone wrong here, but it was more self deprecating than trolling. I am a competent guitarist, but know little musical theory. The same was true of many of my friends. The guitar is easy to start out on and impress some non-players with. You can get a very long way with a few chords and tab. However I would never claim to be a musician. I don't read music, I don't think in scales. I used to hang round with music students who marvelled at my solo improvisations, but I couldn't compete with them when it came to music theory. I learned the blues scale shape and added the interesting notes which my friends had proper names for..but it didn't stop me playing songs. Those who do learn music theory have my utmost respect, they could do harmonic things I can only marvel at, but I knew 20x more guitarists that just learned songs from the magazines (before the internet), song books and each other until they had enough building blocks to do their own thing
billsix 9y ago
Try not to judge a musician's talent and knowledge based off of their popular hits. John Mayer is a phenomenal guitarist whose commercially successful songs require few of his actual abilities. I find that Radiohead creates quite interesting music from a theory perspective. Learn to play songs like "no surprises" and "paranoid Android" from Ok Computer. They venture outside of normal key in various ways. Being able to learn an existing song via memorization without understanding does not imply that the creator didn't have a clue.
- jimnotgym 9y ago
  > Learn to play songs like "no surprises" Sorry if I gave the wrong impression here. I base my supposition about how Radiohead constructed their early hits from learning to play them. I like 'No suprises', which I learned for the vocal challenge, but I think this bears me out. IIRC the song opens with an arpeggio using a simple open-D shape behind a capo high up the neck which gives that interesting tone. The second chord just involves shifting a finger to change the bass note, and the D shape can be maintained right through to the little ditty before it repeats. It sounds pretty but I can't believe he wrote that on a score and then found a way to play it. It seems to be that he had been fiddling around with the classic guitarists trick of holding a chord shape and moving the bass note around, noting what sounds good. The skill is surely in taking that little ditty and translating it into a song. From the same album IIRC was 'Fake Plastic Trees'. I remember being staggered by the exotic chord names and the amazing sounds it made. then I set out to learn it, and again they are classic chord shapes with shifting bass notes etc. So I wont credit Thom Yorke with having been a great guitar player back then, or even having somehow composed those songs with the aim of trying out interesting theoretical concepts. I will credit him with a great ear for turning those little tricks into songs. Since this is HN I will note that his wiki says he does not read music[0] and that the rest of the band take his little sketches and develop them harmonically. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thom_Yorke#Artistry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thom_Yorke#Artistry
  - billsix 9y ago
    Fair enough :-)

Joeboy 9y ago

> Guitarists learning scales? I mean like the names of the notes rather than the shapes they make on the neck? I'm probably not supposed to say this sort of thing here, but you're surely trolling.

jimnotgym 9y ago
I think I may have got the tone wrong here, but it was more self deprecating than trolling. I am a competent guitarist, but know little musical theory. The same was true of many of my friends. The guitar is easy to start out on and impress some non-players with. You can get a very long way with a few chords and tab. However I would never claim to be a musician. I don't read music, I don't think in scales. I used to hang round with music students who marvelled at my solo improvisations, but I couldn't compete with them when it came to music theory. I learned the blues scale shape and added the interesting notes which my friends had proper names for..but it didn't stop me playing songs. Those who do learn music theory have my utmost respect, they could do harmonic things I can only marvel at, but I knew 20x more guitarists that just learned songs from the magazines (before the internet), song books and each other until they had enough building blocks to do their own thing

billsix 9y ago

Try not to judge a musician's talent and knowledge based off of their popular hits. John Mayer is a phenomenal guitarist whose commercially successful songs require few of his actual abilities. I find that Radiohead creates quite interesting music from a theory perspective. Learn to play songs like "no surprises" and "paranoid Android" from Ok Computer. They venture outside of normal key in various ways. Being able to learn an existing song via memorization without understanding does not imply that the creator didn't have a clue.

jimnotgym 9y ago
> Learn to play songs like "no surprises" Sorry if I gave the wrong impression here. I base my supposition about how Radiohead constructed their early hits from learning to play them. I like 'No suprises', which I learned for the vocal challenge, but I think this bears me out. IIRC the song opens with an arpeggio using a simple open-D shape behind a capo high up the neck which gives that interesting tone. The second chord just involves shifting a finger to change the bass note, and the D shape can be maintained right through to the little ditty before it repeats. It sounds pretty but I can't believe he wrote that on a score and then found a way to play it. It seems to be that he had been fiddling around with the classic guitarists trick of holding a chord shape and moving the bass note around, noting what sounds good. The skill is surely in taking that little ditty and translating it into a song. From the same album IIRC was 'Fake Plastic Trees'. I remember being staggered by the exotic chord names and the amazing sounds it made. then I set out to learn it, and again they are classic chord shapes with shifting bass notes etc. So I wont credit Thom Yorke with having been a great guitar player back then, or even having somehow composed those songs with the aim of trying out interesting theoretical concepts. I will credit him with a great ear for turning those little tricks into songs. Since this is HN I will note that his wiki says he does not read music[0] and that the rest of the band take his little sketches and develop them harmonically. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thom_Yorke#Artistry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thom_Yorke#Artistry
- billsix 9y ago
  Fair enough :-)