4 ms·

I expect a "it's easier to use" evangelism push around the upcoming epoch release. There are a bunch of mostly completed but still feature flagged changes that

I expect a "it's easier to use" evangelism push around the upcoming epoch release. There are a bunch of mostly completed but still feature flagged changes that should remove a lot of the borrow checker toe stubbing. Getting rustfmt (formatter) and clippy (linter) on stable Rust would ideally be part of the push. Aside from the almost completed features in the pipeline, I only see procedural macros (macros 2.0) and whatever happens to make async code easier to write[1] really impacting day-to-day code for most people. [1] I'd really like to see F# Computation Expressions instead of async/await. I know the language experts have said Haskell-like do notation doesn't work in Rust but I'm not sure if the F# tweaks would make it work or not.

curiousGambler 9y ago
Why anyone would name anything "clippy" again is beyond me.
- jgtrosh 9y ago
  Clippy is reborn from its ashes into a cultural icon; it made you react, therefore it's a fun name to choose. Kakoune uses a clippy ASCII art for its immediate help, it's nice.
  - bjz_ 9y ago
    > Kakoune uses a clippy ASCII art for its immediate help, it's nice. Had to look this up - very cute! https://github.com/mawww/kakoune#screenshots https://github.com/mawww/kakoune#screenshots https://raw.githubusercontent.com/mawww/kakoune/master/doc/screenshot-i3.gif https://raw.githubusercontent.com/mawww/kakoune/master/doc/s...
    - tomsmeding 9y ago
      Their choice of executable name is slightly unfortunate in Dutch, where 'kak' basically means 'shit'.
      - ilammy 9y ago
        Eastern Slavic languages like Russian also give a similar vibe to this word ('shitter').
        534b44a 9y ago
        Какаю would the translated to "I poo" (hence Кака would be "poo"). Срач would be the stronger word in Russian [1]. [1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%81%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%87 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%81%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%87
      - elygre 9y ago
        I think “kak” would be better translated as “poo”. Parents will routinely talk to their kids about “kak”, similar to the way US parents will use the word “poo”. The word “shit” generally has a much stronger meaning (and is therefore often obscured, as “s..t” or something similar.
        lieuwex 9y ago
        I think "kak" still would be translated better as "shit", you wouldn't curse with "POO!". But in Dutch you can curse with "KAK!", just as 'SH*T!' in English.
  - ta127388 9y ago
    It was an abortive piece of crap, like most of Microsoft's offerings, when they weren't killing competitors and seeding people into government jobs to further instill their crap. Fuck you.
- llogiq 9y ago
  One of clippy's authors and maintainers here (though I didn't choose the name); why would you name such a program "lint"? For me clippy evokes the image of a well-meaning, if at times clumsy helper that tries to nudge you in the right direction. I find that very fitting for a tool that...well...tries to nudge you in the right direction of writing good, fast, idiomatic code.
- d33 9y ago
  What's wrong with this name?
  - gravypod 9y ago
    Probably trademarks and copyrights.
    - wongarsu 9y ago
      Copyright doesn't apply to names, and the only US trademark for "clippy" is for medical equipment (and thus doesn't apply here) [1]. There doesn't seem to be any EU trademark for "clippy" 1: http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=toc&state=4805%3Atvdrto.1.1&p_search=searchss&p_L=50&BackReference=&p_plural=yes&p_s_PARA1=&p_tagrepl~%3A=PARA1%24LD&expr=PARA1+AND+PARA2&p_s_PARA2=clippy&p_tagrepl~%3A=PARA2%24COMB&p_op_ALL=AND&a_default=search&a_search=Submit+Query&a_search=Submit+Query http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=toc&state=4805%3At...
jeremyjh 9y ago
You can already get “Monad comprehensions” through the mdo and mdo-futures crates.
bjz_ 9y ago
> [1] I'd really like to see F# Computation Expressions instead of async/await. I know the language experts have said Haskell-like do notation doesn't work in Rust but I'm not sure if the F# tweaks would make it work or not. I'd prefer a systems-y, zero-cost take on algebraic effects, similar to what OCaml is going to get. Could be much more extensible, and open things up to annotating whether functions panic or not, access global state, etc. Alas it's still a tricky research problem, even after all these years. There were some nice discussions from ICFP here - the comments strayed into talking about how effects might be implemented without a GC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNp3ifNpgPM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNp3ifNpgPM
- lobster_johnson 9y ago
  Is there a paper or writeup anywhere on what the algebraic effects system coming to OCaml is going to be like? (Does it have a name that can be googled?)
  - grayrest 9y ago
    It's part of the Multicore OCaml [1] effort. [1] https://github.com/ocamllabs/ocaml-multicore/wiki https://github.com/ocamllabs/ocaml-multicore/wiki

curiousGambler 9y ago

Why anyone would name anything "clippy" again is beyond me.

jgtrosh 9y ago
Clippy is reborn from its ashes into a cultural icon; it made you react, therefore it's a fun name to choose. Kakoune uses a clippy ASCII art for its immediate help, it's nice.
- bjz_ 9y ago
  > Kakoune uses a clippy ASCII art for its immediate help, it's nice. Had to look this up - very cute! https://github.com/mawww/kakoune#screenshots https://github.com/mawww/kakoune#screenshots https://raw.githubusercontent.com/mawww/kakoune/master/doc/screenshot-i3.gif https://raw.githubusercontent.com/mawww/kakoune/master/doc/s...
  - tomsmeding 9y ago
    Their choice of executable name is slightly unfortunate in Dutch, where 'kak' basically means 'shit'.
    - ilammy 9y ago
      Eastern Slavic languages like Russian also give a similar vibe to this word ('shitter').
      - 534b44a 9y ago
        Какаю would the translated to "I poo" (hence Кака would be "poo"). Срач would be the stronger word in Russian [1]. [1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%81%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%87 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%81%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%87
    - elygre 9y ago
      I think “kak” would be better translated as “poo”. Parents will routinely talk to their kids about “kak”, similar to the way US parents will use the word “poo”. The word “shit” generally has a much stronger meaning (and is therefore often obscured, as “s..t” or something similar.
      - lieuwex 9y ago
        I think "kak" still would be translated better as "shit", you wouldn't curse with "POO!". But in Dutch you can curse with "KAK!", just as 'SH*T!' in English.
- ta127388 9y ago
  It was an abortive piece of crap, like most of Microsoft's offerings, when they weren't killing competitors and seeding people into government jobs to further instill their crap. Fuck you.
llogiq 9y ago
One of clippy's authors and maintainers here (though I didn't choose the name); why would you name such a program "lint"? For me clippy evokes the image of a well-meaning, if at times clumsy helper that tries to nudge you in the right direction. I find that very fitting for a tool that...well...tries to nudge you in the right direction of writing good, fast, idiomatic code.
d33 9y ago
What's wrong with this name?
- gravypod 9y ago
  Probably trademarks and copyrights.
  - wongarsu 9y ago
    Copyright doesn't apply to names, and the only US trademark for "clippy" is for medical equipment (and thus doesn't apply here) [1]. There doesn't seem to be any EU trademark for "clippy" 1: http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=toc&state=4805%3Atvdrto.1.1&p_search=searchss&p_L=50&BackReference=&p_plural=yes&p_s_PARA1=&p_tagrepl~%3A=PARA1%24LD&expr=PARA1+AND+PARA2&p_s_PARA2=clippy&p_tagrepl~%3A=PARA2%24COMB&p_op_ALL=AND&a_default=search&a_search=Submit+Query&a_search=Submit+Query http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=toc&state=4805%3At...

jeremyjh 9y ago

You can already get “Monad comprehensions” through the mdo and mdo-futures crates.

bjz_ 9y ago

> [1] I'd really like to see F# Computation Expressions instead of async/await. I know the language experts have said Haskell-like do notation doesn't work in Rust but I'm not sure if the F# tweaks would make it work or not. I'd prefer a systems-y, zero-cost take on algebraic effects, similar to what OCaml is going to get. Could be much more extensible, and open things up to annotating whether functions panic or not, access global state, etc. Alas it's still a tricky research problem, even after all these years. There were some nice discussions from ICFP here - the comments strayed into talking about how effects might be implemented without a GC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNp3ifNpgPM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNp3ifNpgPM

lobster_johnson 9y ago
Is there a paper or writeup anywhere on what the algebraic effects system coming to OCaml is going to be like? (Does it have a name that can be googled?)
- grayrest 9y ago
  It's part of the Multicore OCaml [1] effort. [1] https://github.com/ocamllabs/ocaml-multicore/wiki https://github.com/ocamllabs/ocaml-multicore/wiki