8 ms·

HTML5 Peeks, Pokes and Pointers

60 points by pistoriusp 16y ago

mildweed 16y ago
FYI: Article has nothing to do with memory pointers or linked list peeks, and everything to do with DOM attributes of HTML5 elements and attributes.
- philwelch 16y ago
  Yes, my mind was blown for a second and then I was slightly disappointed. ("Poke" and "peek" are also commands to write to and read from a given memory address, respectively.) It's presumably a reference to old time tables of "peeks" and "pokes" showing what each memory address controlled, or somesuch.
  - ugh 16y ago
    Here is what it says in the credits (scroll down): Inspiration: Beagle Bros “Peeks, Pokes and Pointers” chart for Apple ][ (+) (+) links to this: http://www.lazilong.com/apple_II/bbros/ http://www.lazilong.com/apple_II/bbros/
  - MarkPilgrim 16y ago
    Here's the story about the name: I wrote http://diveintomark.org/archives/2010/01/29/tinkerers-sunset http://diveintomark.org/archives/2010/01/29/tinkerers-sunset earlier this year, decrying the lack of "tinkerability" of the iPad and similar closed devices. "There won't ever be a MacsBug for the iPad. There won't be a ResEdit, or a Copy ][+ sector editor, or an iPad Peeks & Pokes Chart." One of the common refrains in the comments was that the iPad includes top-of-the-line support for a perfectly open, tinkerable platform: the web. Thus, the "HTML5 Peeks, Pokes and Pointers" chart was born. Also, I just purchased a real live physical original Beagle Bros "Peeks, Pokes and Pointers" chart to hang up in my mancave^Woffice. Next to my Apple //es. Plural. So there's that.
olefoo 16y ago
Fond memories of the Beagle Bros. poster that hung on the wall next to the Apple ][ 's in my high school's computer lab.
godDLL 16y ago
Is this a chart of individual tests for "HTML5" feature support, so that you could start using them today (providing graceful degradation)? Why, yes it is. Does it say so anywhere on the chart? Let me check…
dstein 16y ago
Everyone's so hyped up about HTML5. And yet I am slowly coming to the realization that the W3C has made a very, very, grave error in not going ahead with XHTML2.
- pistoriusp 16y ago
  What do you find troubling? Even when XHTML 1.1(?) Was the hype around town I couldn't see the value in using it over traditional HTML 4.
- chc 16y ago
  Why is that?
- jacobolus 16y ago
  The W3C did go ahead with XHTML2. And everyone else, most notably the browser makers, realized that with such a broken W3C as would create such a monster, they’d have to make a new spec themselves if they wanted it to be reasonable... whence WHATWG and HTML5. Years later, XHTML2 abandoned by the world, the W3C decided it no longer wanted to be sidelined, and it begged for the HTML5 spec to be brought back under its purview. So that’s where we are now.
- dstein 16y ago
  HTML5 basically takes HTML4 and adds 3 tags: audio, video, canvas. These solve very specific issues, sound, movies, and drawing. HTML5 does not address some larger scoped problems related to HTML -- the biggest being that HTML sucks. It has always sucked, and it needs to go. It needs to be replaced with flexible, programmable XML.
  - rimantas 16y ago
    There is much more to HTML5 (or to HTML4 for that matter) than three elements (those are elements, not tags). You can have your XML with XHTML or HTML5 XML serialization. Oh, but that does not solve the "flexible" part, right? Well, you have to choose there — either flexibility or interoparatibility. HTML5 focuses a lot on the latter. What do you want? To have any arbitrary element in your markup? Ok, you get your <foobar>barbaz</foobar>. And then what? What should it mean to everyone else beside you? What do you gain by that?
philfreo 16y ago
What I want to see is a drop-in JavaScript library that makes many of the new HTML5 elements, attributes, etc. backwards-compatible with all common browsers starting with IE6. E.g., I want to say <input type="text" placeholder="What is your username?" /> and have a script that detects if the browser supports the placeholder attributes, and if not, simulates it transparently. I'd happily understand/accept if this script was limited, so long as it had good clean documentation of what it supported (like placeholder).
- jsdalton 16y ago
  Modernizr (http://www.modernizr.com/ http://www.modernizr.com/) is as close as you're going to get at the moment. It's pretty solid.
  - philfreo 16y ago
    This is actually specifically NOT want I want: "Modernizr does not add missing functionality to browsers; instead, it detects native availability of features and offers you a way to maintain a fine level of control over your site regardless of a browser’s capabilities." I understand that not all HTML5 features can be reproduced in JS, but for the ones that can (such as "placeholder"), I don't want to have to think about reimplementing it for older browsers when it could be done automatically.

60 points by pistoriusp 16y ago

FYI: Article has nothing to do with memory pointers or linked list peeks, and everything to do with DOM attributes of HTML5 elements and attributes.

philwelch 16y ago
Yes, my mind was blown for a second and then I was slightly disappointed. ("Poke" and "peek" are also commands to write to and read from a given memory address, respectively.) It's presumably a reference to old time tables of "peeks" and "pokes" showing what each memory address controlled, or somesuch.
- ugh 16y ago
  Here is what it says in the credits (scroll down): Inspiration: Beagle Bros “Peeks, Pokes and Pointers” chart for Apple ][ (+) (+) links to this: http://www.lazilong.com/apple_II/bbros/ http://www.lazilong.com/apple_II/bbros/
- MarkPilgrim 16y ago
  Here's the story about the name: I wrote http://diveintomark.org/archives/2010/01/29/tinkerers-sunset http://diveintomark.org/archives/2010/01/29/tinkerers-sunset earlier this year, decrying the lack of "tinkerability" of the iPad and similar closed devices. "There won't ever be a MacsBug for the iPad. There won't be a ResEdit, or a Copy ][+ sector editor, or an iPad Peeks & Pokes Chart." One of the common refrains in the comments was that the iPad includes top-of-the-line support for a perfectly open, tinkerable platform: the web. Thus, the "HTML5 Peeks, Pokes and Pointers" chart was born. Also, I just purchased a real live physical original Beagle Bros "Peeks, Pokes and Pointers" chart to hang up in my mancave^Woffice. Next to my Apple //es. Plural. So there's that.

olefoo 16y ago

Fond memories of the Beagle Bros. poster that hung on the wall next to the Apple ][ 's in my high school's computer lab.

godDLL 16y ago

Is this a chart of individual tests for "HTML5" feature support, so that you could start using them today (providing graceful degradation)? Why, yes it is. Does it say so anywhere on the chart? Let me check…

dstein 16y ago

Everyone's so hyped up about HTML5. And yet I am slowly coming to the realization that the W3C has made a very, very, grave error in not going ahead with XHTML2.

pistoriusp 16y ago
What do you find troubling? Even when XHTML 1.1(?) Was the hype around town I couldn't see the value in using it over traditional HTML 4.
chc 16y ago
Why is that?
jacobolus 16y ago
The W3C did go ahead with XHTML2. And everyone else, most notably the browser makers, realized that with such a broken W3C as would create such a monster, they’d have to make a new spec themselves if they wanted it to be reasonable... whence WHATWG and HTML5. Years later, XHTML2 abandoned by the world, the W3C decided it no longer wanted to be sidelined, and it begged for the HTML5 spec to be brought back under its purview. So that’s where we are now.
dstein 16y ago
HTML5 basically takes HTML4 and adds 3 tags: audio, video, canvas. These solve very specific issues, sound, movies, and drawing. HTML5 does not address some larger scoped problems related to HTML -- the biggest being that HTML sucks. It has always sucked, and it needs to go. It needs to be replaced with flexible, programmable XML.
- rimantas 16y ago
  There is much more to HTML5 (or to HTML4 for that matter) than three elements (those are elements, not tags). You can have your XML with XHTML or HTML5 XML serialization. Oh, but that does not solve the "flexible" part, right? Well, you have to choose there — either flexibility or interoparatibility. HTML5 focuses a lot on the latter. What do you want? To have any arbitrary element in your markup? Ok, you get your <foobar>barbaz</foobar>. And then what? What should it mean to everyone else beside you? What do you gain by that?

philfreo 16y ago

What I want to see is a drop-in JavaScript library that makes many of the new HTML5 elements, attributes, etc. backwards-compatible with all common browsers starting with IE6. E.g., I want to say <input type="text" placeholder="What is your username?" /> and have a script that detects if the browser supports the placeholder attributes, and if not, simulates it transparently. I'd happily understand/accept if this script was limited, so long as it had good clean documentation of what it supported (like placeholder).

jsdalton 16y ago
Modernizr (http://www.modernizr.com/ http://www.modernizr.com/) is as close as you're going to get at the moment. It's pretty solid.
- philfreo 16y ago
  This is actually specifically NOT want I want: "Modernizr does not add missing functionality to browsers; instead, it detects native availability of features and offers you a way to maintain a fine level of control over your site regardless of a browser’s capabilities." I understand that not all HTML5 features can be reproduced in JS, but for the ones that can (such as "placeholder"), I don't want to have to think about reimplementing it for older browsers when it could be done automatically.