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So it took 38 minutes to send out a new message informing this was a false alert. How is that possible if this was simply a human error during a "shift change"?

So it took 38 minutes to send out a new message informing this was a false alert. How is that possible if this was simply a human error during a "shift change"? You'd think the people who "pressed the wrong button" would be able to press the same button again?

JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> You'd think the people who "pressed the wrong button" would be able to press the same button again? Absolutely not. Once you say “fire” you need official confirmation to say “no fire”. That means certification from the military. The official needed being in a meeting or tending to something of greater importance could easily introduce delays. In any case, I presume the system’s designers didn’t build in an “oops, fat finger” notification. Getting that ready could have easily taken 30 minutes. This happened on a week-end. The coders could have very well been at home.
- tuxxy 9y ago
  This. USPACOM had to check and give Hawaii an all clear.
- FLUX-YOU 9y ago
  >In any case, I presume the system’s designers didn’t build in an “oops, fat finger” notification. Yeah, but imagine getting a legit alert, and then someone fat-fingering the "fat finger" notification. Or someone installing malware that sends that notification for all military related threats.
- gizmo686 9y ago
  I would assume the system supports arbitrary messages. During a real emergency, I doubt they would want to need to get coders in order to send an unexpected message.
- FireBeyond 9y ago
  > The official needed being in a meeting or tending to something of greater importance I'm struggling to think what meeting or item would have an importance higher than "incoming ballistic nuclear missiles".
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    > I'm struggling to think what meeting or item would have an importance higher than "incoming ballistic nuclear missiles" That’s not what happened. No military system detected a threat. “Incoming ballistic projectile” would be a high priority. “Civilian request for official confirmation everything is fine” is not.
- runesoerensen 9y ago
  > Absolutely not. Once you say “fire” you need official confirmation to say “no fire”. Whether they had or needed "official confirmation" the Hawaii EMA still tweeted "NO missile threat to Hawaii" ~13 min after the false alert https://twitter.com/Hawaii_EMA/status/952243912415985664 https://twitter.com/Hawaii_EMA/status/952243912415985664 Would be nice if they could stick to the same medium and ensure timely delivery for this type of correction.
- anigbrowl 9y ago
  If you're engaged in a drill that's a completely predictable failure mode which you should have a standby plan for. This happened on a week-end. The coders could have very well been at home. Again, why would you perform a drill involving mass emergency mobilization and not manage that risk? What if this had happened during a morning commute or in some part of the country where people are more easily panicked? With great power comes great responsibility, remember?
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    > why would you perform a drill Was this a drill? I understood it to be an unplanned mistake.
    - roywiggins 9y ago
      The White House put out a statement calling it a drill, but that hasn't been confirmed anywhere else, so.
  - azernik 9y ago
    This was not a planned drill. It was a mistake by an operator during shift change.
    - anigbrowl 9y ago
      I find that explanation hard to take at face value. There's a button specifically labeled 'ballistic missile emergency'? Is there a different button for every possible emergency, like a tsunami button, a hijacked plane button, an earthquake button, a volcano button? The text of the warning was “EMERGENCY ALERT BALLISTIC MISSILE THREAT INBOUND TO HAWAII. SEEK IMMEDIATE SHELTER. THIS IS NOT A DRILL.” That seems really specific. Also, the news story we're commenting on describes it as a drill that is conducted every shift change, so yes I think it's a drill because that's how they describe it. Officials said the alert was the result of human error and not the work of hackers or a foreign government. The mistake occurred during a shift-change drill that takes place three times a day at the emergency command post, according to Richard Rapoza, a spokesman for the agency.
TillE 9y ago
The long delay is what lightly tickles my suspicion that maybe this wasn't a mistake. It's a little too much of a coincidence that this particular alert happens in Hawaii at a time of escalating tensions with North Korea. I mean it's probably just a simple mistake, but it's also the kind of thing you would do if you wanted to stoke fears about a nuclear strike.
- lostlogin 9y ago
  Or if you wanted something new on the front page of papers for some reason. A screw up seems more likely though.
- roywiggins 9y ago
  This system is run by the state of Hawaii. They're not exactly pro-confrontation (Tulsi Gabbard aside, but she's not in the state government).
  - anigbrowl 9y ago
    How many people do you need to persuade to a particular point of view to actually put something like this into effect? If it were staged it would be interest of the state to hush it up rather than admit to a power struggle in the control room.
    - roywiggins 9y ago
      The State of Hawaii is spending time and money suing the feds over several things right now. The politicians in charge would probably love to blame this on someone else. The control room is probably staffed by underpaid state employees who aren't paid enough to take part in a government coverup for no good reason.
      - anigbrowl 9y ago
        Most likely, but it seems like a single disgruntled individual who disapproved of the state's policy could effect such an outcome. We've seen numerous examples of security-related fuckups over the years that were swept under the rug despite the economic incentives to blow the whistle, so I'm no inclined to completely dismiss the possibility.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago

> You'd think the people who "pressed the wrong button" would be able to press the same button again? Absolutely not. Once you say “fire” you need official confirmation to say “no fire”. That means certification from the military. The official needed being in a meeting or tending to something of greater importance could easily introduce delays. In any case, I presume the system’s designers didn’t build in an “oops, fat finger” notification. Getting that ready could have easily taken 30 minutes. This happened on a week-end. The coders could have very well been at home.

tuxxy 9y ago
This. USPACOM had to check and give Hawaii an all clear.
FLUX-YOU 9y ago
>In any case, I presume the system’s designers didn’t build in an “oops, fat finger” notification. Yeah, but imagine getting a legit alert, and then someone fat-fingering the "fat finger" notification. Or someone installing malware that sends that notification for all military related threats.
gizmo686 9y ago
I would assume the system supports arbitrary messages. During a real emergency, I doubt they would want to need to get coders in order to send an unexpected message.
FireBeyond 9y ago
> The official needed being in a meeting or tending to something of greater importance I'm struggling to think what meeting or item would have an importance higher than "incoming ballistic nuclear missiles".
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  > I'm struggling to think what meeting or item would have an importance higher than "incoming ballistic nuclear missiles" That’s not what happened. No military system detected a threat. “Incoming ballistic projectile” would be a high priority. “Civilian request for official confirmation everything is fine” is not.
runesoerensen 9y ago
> Absolutely not. Once you say “fire” you need official confirmation to say “no fire”. Whether they had or needed "official confirmation" the Hawaii EMA still tweeted "NO missile threat to Hawaii" ~13 min after the false alert https://twitter.com/Hawaii_EMA/status/952243912415985664 https://twitter.com/Hawaii_EMA/status/952243912415985664 Would be nice if they could stick to the same medium and ensure timely delivery for this type of correction.
anigbrowl 9y ago
If you're engaged in a drill that's a completely predictable failure mode which you should have a standby plan for. This happened on a week-end. The coders could have very well been at home. Again, why would you perform a drill involving mass emergency mobilization and not manage that risk? What if this had happened during a morning commute or in some part of the country where people are more easily panicked? With great power comes great responsibility, remember?
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  > why would you perform a drill Was this a drill? I understood it to be an unplanned mistake.
  - roywiggins 9y ago
    The White House put out a statement calling it a drill, but that hasn't been confirmed anywhere else, so.
- azernik 9y ago
  This was not a planned drill. It was a mistake by an operator during shift change.
  - anigbrowl 9y ago
    I find that explanation hard to take at face value. There's a button specifically labeled 'ballistic missile emergency'? Is there a different button for every possible emergency, like a tsunami button, a hijacked plane button, an earthquake button, a volcano button? The text of the warning was “EMERGENCY ALERT BALLISTIC MISSILE THREAT INBOUND TO HAWAII. SEEK IMMEDIATE SHELTER. THIS IS NOT A DRILL.” That seems really specific. Also, the news story we're commenting on describes it as a drill that is conducted every shift change, so yes I think it's a drill because that's how they describe it. Officials said the alert was the result of human error and not the work of hackers or a foreign government. The mistake occurred during a shift-change drill that takes place three times a day at the emergency command post, according to Richard Rapoza, a spokesman for the agency.

TillE 9y ago

The long delay is what lightly tickles my suspicion that maybe this wasn't a mistake. It's a little too much of a coincidence that this particular alert happens in Hawaii at a time of escalating tensions with North Korea. I mean it's probably just a simple mistake, but it's also the kind of thing you would do if you wanted to stoke fears about a nuclear strike.

lostlogin 9y ago
Or if you wanted something new on the front page of papers for some reason. A screw up seems more likely though.
roywiggins 9y ago
This system is run by the state of Hawaii. They're not exactly pro-confrontation (Tulsi Gabbard aside, but she's not in the state government).
- anigbrowl 9y ago
  How many people do you need to persuade to a particular point of view to actually put something like this into effect? If it were staged it would be interest of the state to hush it up rather than admit to a power struggle in the control room.
  - roywiggins 9y ago
    The State of Hawaii is spending time and money suing the feds over several things right now. The politicians in charge would probably love to blame this on someone else. The control room is probably staffed by underpaid state employees who aren't paid enough to take part in a government coverup for no good reason.
    - anigbrowl 9y ago
      Most likely, but it seems like a single disgruntled individual who disapproved of the state's policy could effect such an outcome. We've seen numerous examples of security-related fuckups over the years that were swept under the rug despite the economic incentives to blow the whistle, so I'm no inclined to completely dismiss the possibility.