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Crimea voted to join Russia in a referendum, in the same way they did twice in the 1990s when a part of Ukraine. Opinion polling and independent (western) resea

Crimea voted to join Russia in a referendum, in the same way they did twice in the 1990s when a part of Ukraine. Opinion polling and independent (western) research there has confirmed the results many times, the vote wasn't rigged or anything like that. The reasons are understandable enough - Russia did much better economically than Ukraine since the end of the USSR and so salaries there are in some cases up to 10x higher. And Ukraine had been spending its time mucking about with language laws and other things that aren't so friendly to a place where people mostly speak Russian. So to say "not end up like Crimea" is perhaps not the best example. All that said, I agree with your basic premise that the world has not put war behind it forever and to abandon defence, or be unable to mount defence due to a population that considers it "unsexy", might well one day lead to very problematic military defeat.

baybal2 9y ago
Stop reading soviet newspapers, they are bad for the brain
- lowry 9y ago
  He is overstating facts, but he is right in essence. It made sense for the inhabitants of Crimea to want Russian annnexation. Salaries and pensions are higher in Russia, especially for public servants. Not 10 times higher, but still. Same thing with referendum, the one Russia hastily organized was a joke, but independent polls were showing preference for annexation anyway.
- mmjaa 9y ago
  Not much better than US propaganda.
Const-me 9y ago
> Opinion polling and independent (western) research there has confirmed the results many times Opinion polling conducted before Russian occupation say 38% wanted to join Russia, 40% wanted to remain an autonomous republic within Ukraine. Here’s a link (Russian): http://www.km.ru/world/2012/09/14/polozhenie-russkoyazychnogo-naseleniya-ukrainy/692296-rossiya-teryaet-krym http://www.km.ru/world/2012/09/14/polozhenie-russkoyazychnog...
- peoplewindow 9y ago
  Nope, here's an example: http://avaazpress.s3.amazonaws.com/558_Crimea.Referendum.Poll.GfK.pdf http://avaazpress.s3.amazonaws.com/558_Crimea.Referendum.Pol... 70% saying they'd pick to join Russia. Phone poll just before the vote, by Gfk Ukraine, 600 participants. There were other such polls after the vote by western polling agencies too. But I don't have the links handy right now.
  - Const-me 9y ago
    “The fieldwork was carried out from March 12 till March 14, 2014.” That was after the invasion. Russians tortured, kidnapped and killed civilians there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation#Human_rights_situation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Ru... Locals have very good reasons to be afraid to express their political viewpoints. Especially to an unknown person who called their phone.

baybal2 9y ago

Stop reading soviet newspapers, they are bad for the brain

lowry 9y ago
He is overstating facts, but he is right in essence. It made sense for the inhabitants of Crimea to want Russian annnexation. Salaries and pensions are higher in Russia, especially for public servants. Not 10 times higher, but still. Same thing with referendum, the one Russia hastily organized was a joke, but independent polls were showing preference for annexation anyway.
mmjaa 9y ago
Not much better than US propaganda.

Const-me 9y ago

> Opinion polling and independent (western) research there has confirmed the results many times Opinion polling conducted before Russian occupation say 38% wanted to join Russia, 40% wanted to remain an autonomous republic within Ukraine. Here’s a link (Russian): http://www.km.ru/world/2012/09/14/polozhenie-russkoyazychnogo-naseleniya-ukrainy/692296-rossiya-teryaet-krym http://www.km.ru/world/2012/09/14/polozhenie-russkoyazychnog...

peoplewindow 9y ago
Nope, here's an example: http://avaazpress.s3.amazonaws.com/558_Crimea.Referendum.Poll.GfK.pdf http://avaazpress.s3.amazonaws.com/558_Crimea.Referendum.Pol... 70% saying they'd pick to join Russia. Phone poll just before the vote, by Gfk Ukraine, 600 participants. There were other such polls after the vote by western polling agencies too. But I don't have the links handy right now.
- Const-me 9y ago
  “The fieldwork was carried out from March 12 till March 14, 2014.” That was after the invasion. Russians tortured, kidnapped and killed civilians there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation#Human_rights_situation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Ru... Locals have very good reasons to be afraid to express their political viewpoints. Especially to an unknown person who called their phone.