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Dear native English speakers: Does the following excerpt make sense to you? “Packing graphite, which is the consistency of sand, ...” I would have expected “whi

Dear native English speakers: Does the following excerpt make sense to you? “Packing graphite, which is the consistency of sand, ...” I would have expected “which has the consistency of sand”. Thanks!

stevula 9y ago
Sounds fine to me but I can see why it would be confusing. In proper prose it would be as you have it or maybe "which is of the consistency of sand". You'll also hear people say things like "it's the same difficulty as ___" instead of "it has the same difficulty as ___".
Stratoscope 9y ago
Either of those sounds fine to this native English speaker. I would probably go with "is" like the author, but it's pretty much a toss-up.
paublyrne 9y ago
Good spot. I would prefer has. Thinking about it now, I would never use is in this context. I suspect it may be more common in American English.
- omgbananas 9y ago
  Native English speaker from America here, I would have said "has," but I can imagine others with bad grammatical habits saying "is" instead. For example, many people will "graduated college" instead of "graduated from college". Reading comprehension is abysmal as well. I actually read instructions to stuff, but that is culturally-demonized - that probably doesn't help. At least it makes it easier for the people that care to have a better chance at succeeding. When others lower their standards, it doesn't take much effort to rise to the top.
  - yorwba 9y ago
    > For example, many people will "graduated college" instead of "graduated from college". Some people will even verbs from their sentences. But comprehension > grammatical "correctness" always. In time, grammar will adapt.
  - matthewmacleod 9y ago
    Think you might have a mild superiority complex going on there, buddy. There’s nothing wrong with ascribing properties to a noun in either manner. Language is flexible enough to deal with whatever feels appropriate for a given noun-property pair, and this is hardly an egregious error. Regarding graduation, bear in mind that until the 1960s it was more common for the school to do the graduating, rather than the student; a hypothetical student was graduated from college, they did not graduate from college. Of course, that now seems quite archaic. But the simplification continues, and perhaps in the near future the “unnecessary” from will sound equally unusual. The point is that language is astonishingly flexible, and generally trying to take the road of prescriptivism is doomed to everlasting sadness and disappointment :)
    - omgbananas 9y ago
      > Think you might have a mild superiority complex going on there, buddy. Same to you.
munificent 9y ago
I believe the sentence is describing a specific kind of graphite -- powdered "packing graphite" -- in contrast to the solid graphite cores it surrounds. The cores are packed in packing graphite.
mturmon 9y ago
This native speaker thinks you have a point. The “consistency” is a property possessed by the graphite, thus “has”. The “is” suggests that graphite is to be directly equated with consistency. Comparatives are always tricky in English, but consider: “Ball bearings, which have the smoothness of plate glass, ...” You would not put “are” for “have” in the above. You can generate a lot of similar examples.
- _delirium 9y ago
  I agree with your smoothness example, but with consistency both "has" and "is" are common. Usage seems to vary by specific object and context. One example where almost all authors go with "is": there are thousands of recipes saying to heat butter until it "is" a particular consistency, versus only a handful saying to heat it until it "has" a particular consistency. Compare https://www.google.com/search?q=%22until+the+butter+is+the+consistency%22 https://www.google.com/search?q=%22until+the+butter+is+the+c... vs. https://www.google.com/search?q=%22until+the+butter+has+the+consistency%22 https://www.google.com/search?q=%22until+the+butter+has+the+....
  - mturmon 9y ago
    Nice examples. It would take more of a grammar nut than I am (and I read Garner's book cover to cover) to untangle it. I'm not able to detect any relevant search terms, either.
yesenadam 9y ago
Makes sense and sounds absolutely fine. Graphite is the colour of a dark and stormy night.
bluedino 9y ago
This type of reference is used in recipes as well - mix the dough until is the consistency of x
duncan_bayne 9y ago
Native speaker here: yes, I'd expect "has", not "is".
skywhopper 9y ago
For me, an American from the South (not sure if that makes a difference), "is" doesn't sound wrong. If I think about it, "has" makes more logical sense. But plenty of phrases we use all the time make no logical sense, so that's not a disqualifier. That said, "has" definitely doesn't sound wrong, and has the bonus of being more logical. So if you're looking for usage advice, go with "has" in this situation. But know that "is" is acceptable to at least some of us.
crazygringo 9y ago
Native speaker and former English teacher here. Both are correct! In this case, "the consistency of sand" functions as an adjective, just like "soft". So in the same way you can say "packing graphite, which is soft", you can also say "packing graphite, which is the consistency of sand". But at the same time, "the consistency of sand" works as an attribute too, like "black exterior". So in the same way you can say "packing graphite, which has a black exterior", you can also say "packing graphite, which has the consistency of sand".
ezequiel-garzon 9y ago
Thanks for all the wonderful, insightful replies! I’m pretty sure I had never reached ten top-level replies. Cheers!

stevula 9y ago

Sounds fine to me but I can see why it would be confusing. In proper prose it would be as you have it or maybe "which is of the consistency of sand". You'll also hear people say things like "it's the same difficulty as ___" instead of "it has the same difficulty as ___".

Stratoscope 9y ago

Either of those sounds fine to this native English speaker. I would probably go with "is" like the author, but it's pretty much a toss-up.

paublyrne 9y ago

Good spot. I would prefer has. Thinking about it now, I would never use is in this context. I suspect it may be more common in American English.

omgbananas 9y ago
Native English speaker from America here, I would have said "has," but I can imagine others with bad grammatical habits saying "is" instead. For example, many people will "graduated college" instead of "graduated from college". Reading comprehension is abysmal as well. I actually read instructions to stuff, but that is culturally-demonized - that probably doesn't help. At least it makes it easier for the people that care to have a better chance at succeeding. When others lower their standards, it doesn't take much effort to rise to the top.
- yorwba 9y ago
  > For example, many people will "graduated college" instead of "graduated from college". Some people will even verbs from their sentences. But comprehension > grammatical "correctness" always. In time, grammar will adapt.
- matthewmacleod 9y ago
  Think you might have a mild superiority complex going on there, buddy. There’s nothing wrong with ascribing properties to a noun in either manner. Language is flexible enough to deal with whatever feels appropriate for a given noun-property pair, and this is hardly an egregious error. Regarding graduation, bear in mind that until the 1960s it was more common for the school to do the graduating, rather than the student; a hypothetical student was graduated from college, they did not graduate from college. Of course, that now seems quite archaic. But the simplification continues, and perhaps in the near future the “unnecessary” from will sound equally unusual. The point is that language is astonishingly flexible, and generally trying to take the road of prescriptivism is doomed to everlasting sadness and disappointment :)
  - omgbananas 9y ago
    > Think you might have a mild superiority complex going on there, buddy. Same to you.

munificent 9y ago

I believe the sentence is describing a specific kind of graphite -- powdered "packing graphite" -- in contrast to the solid graphite cores it surrounds. The cores are packed in packing graphite.

mturmon 9y ago

This native speaker thinks you have a point. The “consistency” is a property possessed by the graphite, thus “has”. The “is” suggests that graphite is to be directly equated with consistency. Comparatives are always tricky in English, but consider: “Ball bearings, which have the smoothness of plate glass, ...” You would not put “are” for “have” in the above. You can generate a lot of similar examples.

_delirium 9y ago
I agree with your smoothness example, but with consistency both "has" and "is" are common. Usage seems to vary by specific object and context. One example where almost all authors go with "is": there are thousands of recipes saying to heat butter until it "is" a particular consistency, versus only a handful saying to heat it until it "has" a particular consistency. Compare https://www.google.com/search?q=%22until+the+butter+is+the+consistency%22 https://www.google.com/search?q=%22until+the+butter+is+the+c... vs. https://www.google.com/search?q=%22until+the+butter+has+the+consistency%22 https://www.google.com/search?q=%22until+the+butter+has+the+....
- mturmon 9y ago
  Nice examples. It would take more of a grammar nut than I am (and I read Garner's book cover to cover) to untangle it. I'm not able to detect any relevant search terms, either.

yesenadam 9y ago

Makes sense and sounds absolutely fine. Graphite is the colour of a dark and stormy night.

bluedino 9y ago

This type of reference is used in recipes as well - mix the dough until is the consistency of x

duncan_bayne 9y ago

Native speaker here: yes, I'd expect "has", not "is".

skywhopper 9y ago

For me, an American from the South (not sure if that makes a difference), "is" doesn't sound wrong. If I think about it, "has" makes more logical sense. But plenty of phrases we use all the time make no logical sense, so that's not a disqualifier. That said, "has" definitely doesn't sound wrong, and has the bonus of being more logical. So if you're looking for usage advice, go with "has" in this situation. But know that "is" is acceptable to at least some of us.

crazygringo 9y ago

Native speaker and former English teacher here. Both are correct! In this case, "the consistency of sand" functions as an adjective, just like "soft". So in the same way you can say "packing graphite, which is soft", you can also say "packing graphite, which is the consistency of sand". But at the same time, "the consistency of sand" works as an attribute too, like "black exterior". So in the same way you can say "packing graphite, which has a black exterior", you can also say "packing graphite, which has the consistency of sand".

ezequiel-garzon 9y ago

Thanks for all the wonderful, insightful replies! I’m pretty sure I had never reached ten top-level replies. Cheers!