3 ms·

I was under the impression the search deals are merely which engine are the default. How does having the default search be Google make the Mozilla corp beholden

I was under the impression the search deals are merely which engine are the default. How does having the default search be Google make the Mozilla corp beholden to Google?

nitrogen 9y ago
If the search engine is unhappy, they will pay less money to be the default.
- tekromancr 9y ago
  Then another search engine will happily take the that browser's market share.
  - geezerjay 9y ago
    Which search engine might that be? Last time I looked, Google operated a de facto monopoly.
  - dvfjsdhgfv 9y ago
    Maybe for less money, then your colleagues will get fired and your salary will be cut etc. Whenever your earnings depends on someone giving you money, whether it's through advertising or a grant, it's quite normal and common you'll be very careful not to upset them. At least you'll think twice before doing so.
ftlio 9y ago
If Google is paying what Yahoo was, it's $300 million a year for the default search option on Firefox. Google pays Apple billions to stay the default on the iPhone as well.
- windlep 9y ago
  Ok, so that makes Mozilla beholden to them how exactly? Is Google calling up Mozilla asking them to do them favors in the product? Are Mozilla engineers being asked to write in special features that Google asks for? Yes, Google provides 90% of the revenue or somewhere around there. But I still haven't heard how exactly Mozilla is doing special favors to Google or is in some way beholden to it. Mozilla has a contract with Google to be the default search provider for a set period of years. I have never heard of anything else being in there that allows Google to make any product requests on Mozilla. How come no one wants to say how exactly Mozilla is doing what Google wants?
  - Tloewald 9y ago
    Mozilla’s bizarre stance on H264 coincidentally favored Google’s position. Mozilla’s anti-ad-tracking stuff was all switched off by default. They make their money from ads meaning their incentives parallel those of ad networks. All ad supported products have bad incentives. It’s the same reason HBO and Nerflix produces great TV shows and ad based broadcast and cable networks mainly produce garbage.
- mtarnovan 9y ago
  So if Google stopped paying Apple, what would they do? Switch to Bing? I'm sure their users would love that </s>
  - blisse 9y ago
    Given that Apple had been using Bing for search from 2014-2017, I'm not sure users actually care that much. https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/25/apple-switches-from-bing-to-google-for-siri-web-search-results-on-ios-and-spotlight-on-mac/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/25/apple-switches-from-bing-t...
    - mtarnovan 9y ago
      That article is about Siri web search.
AndrewCHMcM 9y ago
search engines pay for 80% of mozilla's cheques, so search engines have 80% control over mozilla's income, which is a bit iffy, especially for something meant to be community controlled and directed (non profit open source right?)
- emh68 9y ago
  What I don’t understand is why are there no paid browsers? I’d pay $xx(x?) for a browser where I’m the customer, not the product. Every open-source browser is either awful and outdated, or is beholden to outside interests, or internal monetization strategy.

I was under the impression the search deals are merely which engine are the default. How does having the default search be Google make the Mozilla corp beholden to Google?

nitrogen 9y ago

If the search engine is unhappy, they will pay less money to be the default.

tekromancr 9y ago
Then another search engine will happily take the that browser's market share.
- geezerjay 9y ago
  Which search engine might that be? Last time I looked, Google operated a de facto monopoly.
- dvfjsdhgfv 9y ago
  Maybe for less money, then your colleagues will get fired and your salary will be cut etc. Whenever your earnings depends on someone giving you money, whether it's through advertising or a grant, it's quite normal and common you'll be very careful not to upset them. At least you'll think twice before doing so.

ftlio 9y ago

If Google is paying what Yahoo was, it's $300 million a year for the default search option on Firefox. Google pays Apple billions to stay the default on the iPhone as well.

windlep 9y ago
Ok, so that makes Mozilla beholden to them how exactly? Is Google calling up Mozilla asking them to do them favors in the product? Are Mozilla engineers being asked to write in special features that Google asks for? Yes, Google provides 90% of the revenue or somewhere around there. But I still haven't heard how exactly Mozilla is doing special favors to Google or is in some way beholden to it. Mozilla has a contract with Google to be the default search provider for a set period of years. I have never heard of anything else being in there that allows Google to make any product requests on Mozilla. How come no one wants to say how exactly Mozilla is doing what Google wants?
- Tloewald 9y ago
  Mozilla’s bizarre stance on H264 coincidentally favored Google’s position. Mozilla’s anti-ad-tracking stuff was all switched off by default. They make their money from ads meaning their incentives parallel those of ad networks. All ad supported products have bad incentives. It’s the same reason HBO and Nerflix produces great TV shows and ad based broadcast and cable networks mainly produce garbage.
mtarnovan 9y ago
So if Google stopped paying Apple, what would they do? Switch to Bing? I'm sure their users would love that </s>
- blisse 9y ago
  Given that Apple had been using Bing for search from 2014-2017, I'm not sure users actually care that much. https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/25/apple-switches-from-bing-to-google-for-siri-web-search-results-on-ios-and-spotlight-on-mac/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/25/apple-switches-from-bing-t...
  - mtarnovan 9y ago
    That article is about Siri web search.

AndrewCHMcM 9y ago

search engines pay for 80% of mozilla's cheques, so search engines have 80% control over mozilla's income, which is a bit iffy, especially for something meant to be community controlled and directed (non profit open source right?)

emh68 9y ago
What I don’t understand is why are there no paid browsers? I’d pay $xx(x?) for a browser where I’m the customer, not the product. Every open-source browser is either awful and outdated, or is beholden to outside interests, or internal monetization strategy.