5 ms·

You're kidding, right? That other industries don't have high entry barriers? Just some I can name off the top of my head... Medicine, law, pharmacy, actuarial

You're kidding, right? That other industries don't have high entry barriers? Just some I can name off the top of my head... Medicine, law, pharmacy, actuarial science, accounting... For most upper class jobs it's the norm.

auxym 9y ago
I edited my post to reflect my meaning better. I didn't mean high barriers generally, such as a degree, because that definitely isn't specific to software. I was thinking of the complicated interview process, which seems rather exclusive to software, at least as far as I know. Medicine, pharmacy, actuarial are all licensed professions. A lot (most?) law and accounting practitioners are also licensed. So, is the difference for software that it doesn't require a professional license, so employers are forced to sort of invent their own "licensing" in the form of these very difficult interviews? Not that I'm advocating for licensing by the way, it comes with its own set of problems (notably rent seeking behavior). Just trying to understand why software as a field seems to stand out here.
- kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago
  You answered your question. A degree is also a kind of 'license' (albeit a weaker form than a so-called professional license) but people frown at using them because it sounds credentialist.
  - vonmoltke 9y ago
    This industry hates credentials because it doesn't trust credentials. Which makes it ironic when it's members come here and say other disciplines don't have the same issues as soon us because credentials.
    - fjsolwmv 9y ago
      People who don't have credentials don't like credentials
      - dajohnson89 9y ago
        same goes for privilege
- booleandilemma 9y ago
  When you have a job that pays a lot of money and requires no formal credentials whatsoever, people can and will try to get into that job even though they’re not qualified for it. This is why there are programming candidates failing fizzbuzz. It’s the equivalent of someone applying for a pharmacist position and not knowing what antibiotics are, but it happens, because anyone can call themselves a programmer.
- dmoy 9y ago
  Yea I think it is precisely that. When I interview at AmaGoogFaceSoft, they can't take my word for it that I know how to code my way out of a cardboard box. So my interviews tend to be fairly technical, making me prove that I know what I know, and might actually be a useful asset to the company. When my wife (a CPA) interviews, they know that she knows a whole bunch of stuff, by virtue of being able to go the accreditation board. So when she interviews, it tends to be a super mile high sanity check (have you done accounts receivable/payable before, yes? no? If no that's ok too...) I can't speak for medical, but I have family in law and it tends to lean a lot more towards the accounting style for interviewing (barring maybe some patent law or other specializations). E.g. one had an interview for a corporate banking regulatory position that went roughly "Oh you have no experience in banking or regulatory law? Well that's ok, welcome aboard anyways."
  - vonmoltke 9y ago
    > When my wife (a CPA) interviews, they know that she knows a whole bunch of stuff, by virtue of being able to go the accreditation board. So when she interviews, it tends to be a super mile high sanity check (have you done accounts receivable/payable before, yes? no? If no that's ok too...) All the accreditation board knows is that she knew enough at one time to pass the tests. It says nothing about whether she still knows that stuff today. It's the same thing with a PE license. In fact, with a PE the advice is to take the test as soon after graduation as you are able, because the further out of school you are the harder it is to pass. So, it says you knew that stuff once. It cannot be used as a measure of current competency.
    - dmoy 9y ago
      Well for CPA at least, there's continuing education requirements you have to meet, which varies by state. I dunno how it works for a PE.
      - auxym 9y ago
        Engineering licensing also varies a lot by jurisdiction (by state in the US). In my (canadian) province, the actual license test has no technical component, but there is a continuing education requirement, plus the deontology/ethics requirement I mentioned in the GP.

auxym 9y ago

I edited my post to reflect my meaning better. I didn't mean high barriers generally, such as a degree, because that definitely isn't specific to software. I was thinking of the complicated interview process, which seems rather exclusive to software, at least as far as I know. Medicine, pharmacy, actuarial are all licensed professions. A lot (most?) law and accounting practitioners are also licensed. So, is the difference for software that it doesn't require a professional license, so employers are forced to sort of invent their own "licensing" in the form of these very difficult interviews? Not that I'm advocating for licensing by the way, it comes with its own set of problems (notably rent seeking behavior). Just trying to understand why software as a field seems to stand out here.

kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago
You answered your question. A degree is also a kind of 'license' (albeit a weaker form than a so-called professional license) but people frown at using them because it sounds credentialist.
- vonmoltke 9y ago
  This industry hates credentials because it doesn't trust credentials. Which makes it ironic when it's members come here and say other disciplines don't have the same issues as soon us because credentials.
  - fjsolwmv 9y ago
    People who don't have credentials don't like credentials
    - dajohnson89 9y ago
      same goes for privilege
booleandilemma 9y ago
When you have a job that pays a lot of money and requires no formal credentials whatsoever, people can and will try to get into that job even though they’re not qualified for it. This is why there are programming candidates failing fizzbuzz. It’s the equivalent of someone applying for a pharmacist position and not knowing what antibiotics are, but it happens, because anyone can call themselves a programmer.
dmoy 9y ago
Yea I think it is precisely that. When I interview at AmaGoogFaceSoft, they can't take my word for it that I know how to code my way out of a cardboard box. So my interviews tend to be fairly technical, making me prove that I know what I know, and might actually be a useful asset to the company. When my wife (a CPA) interviews, they know that she knows a whole bunch of stuff, by virtue of being able to go the accreditation board. So when she interviews, it tends to be a super mile high sanity check (have you done accounts receivable/payable before, yes? no? If no that's ok too...) I can't speak for medical, but I have family in law and it tends to lean a lot more towards the accounting style for interviewing (barring maybe some patent law or other specializations). E.g. one had an interview for a corporate banking regulatory position that went roughly "Oh you have no experience in banking or regulatory law? Well that's ok, welcome aboard anyways."
- vonmoltke 9y ago
  > When my wife (a CPA) interviews, they know that she knows a whole bunch of stuff, by virtue of being able to go the accreditation board. So when she interviews, it tends to be a super mile high sanity check (have you done accounts receivable/payable before, yes? no? If no that's ok too...) All the accreditation board knows is that she knew enough at one time to pass the tests. It says nothing about whether she still knows that stuff today. It's the same thing with a PE license. In fact, with a PE the advice is to take the test as soon after graduation as you are able, because the further out of school you are the harder it is to pass. So, it says you knew that stuff once. It cannot be used as a measure of current competency.
  - dmoy 9y ago
    Well for CPA at least, there's continuing education requirements you have to meet, which varies by state. I dunno how it works for a PE.
    - auxym 9y ago
      Engineering licensing also varies a lot by jurisdiction (by state in the US). In my (canadian) province, the actual license test has no technical component, but there is a continuing education requirement, plus the deontology/ethics requirement I mentioned in the GP.