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Why do you say it's not sustainable? It's been sustainable to this point, and technological innovation has always trumped the negative outlooks on population g

Why do you say it's not sustainable? It's been sustainable to this point, and technological innovation has always trumped the negative outlooks on population growth in the past (fertilizer for example). Genetic engineering of food, mass produced lab-meat, the innovations will keep coming and the population will keep growing.

TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
Logistic collapse is a real thing. It doesn't go away just because you hope it doesn't apply any more. There are numerous indicators, from antibiotic resistance, to increasingly obvious climate change effects, to dead zones in the oceans, that suggest life will become harder in the future, not easier. I see no rational reason to be confident about humanity's future until the challenges have either been dealt with, or they haven't. That's unlikely to be clear before the middle of the century, at the absolute earliest.
- bluedevil2k 9y ago
  Humans flourished and grew in population during a freakin' ice age, I don't think the Earth warming by 1 degree is going to drastically alter the steady increase in population growth. Likewise, the population grew tremendously before antibiotics were even invented. There's a level of hubris in every generation, I imagine going back forever, that think "we have it harder than X", when in fact humanity is always progressing and each problem we face is relatively easier to solve than the previous one.
  - y4mi 9y ago
    you might want to check your facts. Humanity didn't flourish during the ice ages. They almost went extinct. I'll admit that antibiotics impact is hard to really isolate from all the other discoveries we've had since ~1920, but their combined effect is pretty obvious to see no matter which data source you choose to use. finally, nobody says that our lives are worse than that of people from pre/early industrial times. It's probably not even us who are currently writing here that will need to live with the consequences. Its still at least 30-50 years off before anything really bad happens. At least that's what most of the scientists write. I'm not one myself.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
StanislavPetrov 9y ago
> It's been sustainable to this point You aren't serious, right? We are literally in the midst of the 6th great mass extinction in the history of the planet due directly to human population. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/10/earths-sixth-mass-extinction-event-already-underway-scientists-warn https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/10/earths-s... The ecosystem is literally being crushed under the masses of humanity. 75% of flying insects are gone. http://www.businessinsider.com/germany-insect-population-flying-bugs-climate-change-pesticides-population-decline-2017-10 http://www.businessinsider.com/germany-insect-population-fly... Bird populations are massively down. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/technology/science/report-finds-north-american-skies-quieter-by-15-billion-fewer-birds/article31876053/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/technology/science/report-fi... Human beings are being literally infused with hundred of industrial chemicals that we saturate the environment with - and have no idea how they are effecting us. https://www.forbes.com/2010/01/21/toxic-chemicals-bpa-lifestyle-health-endocrine-disruptors.html#4451664bbb91 https://www.forbes.com/2010/01/21/toxic-chemicals-bpa-lifest... Runoff from the massive farming operations required to keep so many billions alive is causing hypoxia in our waterways, further destroying our planet. https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/deadzone.html https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/deadzone.html This doesn't even touch on the other ways human overpopulation is destroying the habitability of our planet (global warming, deforestation, massive islands of plastic and garbage growing in our seas). You have to be incredibly uniformed or truly delusional if you don't understand that we are massively overpopulated.

TheOtherHobbes 9y ago

Logistic collapse is a real thing. It doesn't go away just because you hope it doesn't apply any more. There are numerous indicators, from antibiotic resistance, to increasingly obvious climate change effects, to dead zones in the oceans, that suggest life will become harder in the future, not easier. I see no rational reason to be confident about humanity's future until the challenges have either been dealt with, or they haven't. That's unlikely to be clear before the middle of the century, at the absolute earliest.

bluedevil2k 9y ago
Humans flourished and grew in population during a freakin' ice age, I don't think the Earth warming by 1 degree is going to drastically alter the steady increase in population growth. Likewise, the population grew tremendously before antibiotics were even invented. There's a level of hubris in every generation, I imagine going back forever, that think "we have it harder than X", when in fact humanity is always progressing and each problem we face is relatively easier to solve than the previous one.
- y4mi 9y ago
  you might want to check your facts. Humanity didn't flourish during the ice ages. They almost went extinct. I'll admit that antibiotics impact is hard to really isolate from all the other discoveries we've had since ~1920, but their combined effect is pretty obvious to see no matter which data source you choose to use. finally, nobody says that our lives are worse than that of people from pre/early industrial times. It's probably not even us who are currently writing here that will need to live with the consequences. Its still at least 30-50 years off before anything really bad happens. At least that's what most of the scientists write. I'm not one myself.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

StanislavPetrov 9y ago

> It's been sustainable to this point You aren't serious, right? We are literally in the midst of the 6th great mass extinction in the history of the planet due directly to human population. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/10/earths-sixth-mass-extinction-event-already-underway-scientists-warn https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/10/earths-s... The ecosystem is literally being crushed under the masses of humanity. 75% of flying insects are gone. http://www.businessinsider.com/germany-insect-population-flying-bugs-climate-change-pesticides-population-decline-2017-10 http://www.businessinsider.com/germany-insect-population-fly... Bird populations are massively down. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/technology/science/report-finds-north-american-skies-quieter-by-15-billion-fewer-birds/article31876053/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/technology/science/report-fi... Human beings are being literally infused with hundred of industrial chemicals that we saturate the environment with - and have no idea how they are effecting us. https://www.forbes.com/2010/01/21/toxic-chemicals-bpa-lifestyle-health-endocrine-disruptors.html#4451664bbb91 https://www.forbes.com/2010/01/21/toxic-chemicals-bpa-lifest... Runoff from the massive farming operations required to keep so many billions alive is causing hypoxia in our waterways, further destroying our planet. https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/deadzone.html https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/deadzone.html This doesn't even touch on the other ways human overpopulation is destroying the habitability of our planet (global warming, deforestation, massive islands of plastic and garbage growing in our seas). You have to be incredibly uniformed or truly delusional if you don't understand that we are massively overpopulated.