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> The book The Bell Curve that you references doesn't make any definite inferences regarding IQ and race. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve https://

> The book The Bell Curve that you references doesn't make any definite inferences regarding IQ and race. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve > Herrnstein and Murray report that Asian Americans have a higher mean IQ than white Americans, who in turn outscore black Americans. The book argues that the black-white gap is not due to test bias, noting that IQ tests do not tend to underpredict the school or job performance of black individuals and that the gap is larger on apparently culturally neutral test items than on more culturally loaded items. The authors also note that adjusting for socioeconomic status does not eliminate the black-white IQ gap. However, they argue that the gap is narrowing. >I know your defense is that you are not "actually" claiming that blacks are inferior intellectually to whites, you are "merely" asking the questions. I'm not "merely asking questions" I have a thesis. That is, races (defined as geographically based populations) are different from one another in more ways than just their skin color. Of course, there is lots of overlap because we are all human. >If you think I'm being hostile, it is because your arguments are so incredibly lame. I'm not a geneticist, but even I can refute them You honestly aren't doing a very good job.

dragonwriter 9y ago
> The authors also note that adjusting for socioeconomic status does not eliminate the black-white IQ gap. However, they argue that the gap is narrowing. There are known environmental factors in IQ (most notably, early childhood environment factors), and because of de jure and de facto segregation (including redlining), which was quite active until fairly recently historically and continues to have substantial lingering effects on people's environment (even if all such active practices were ended, and some of the de facto practices have not been, that would still be true for a long time unless you randomly relocated the whole population to erase the impacts), so adjusting for socio-economic status other than race does not actually control for the environmental factors that contribute to IQ. As such, the effect identified could plausibly be environmental, which would also explain why it is weakening over time with the elimination of some and erosion of other segregationist practices.
- supreme_sublime 9y ago
  > There are known environmental factors in IQ (most notably, early childhood environment factors), and because of de jure and de facto segregation (including redlining) Redlining doesn't really have much to do with early childhood malnutrition[0], which is the majority of "early childhood environment factors". Though pollution[1] seems to cause problems as well, which would have more to do with the neighborhood someone lives in. > so adjusting for socio-economic status other than race does not actually control for the environmental factors that contribute to IQ. I'm not sure this follows. Why wouldn't controlling for socioeconomic factors (such as parental income) be able to control for an environmental factor that has been shown to lower IQ (such as malnutrition)? Some of the lines of logic that this would result in are kind of disturbing. It almost seems like you are suggesting that black people being segregated (via redlining) to be around other black people will make them have a lower IQ, even if they are just as wealthy as the white people across the railroad tracks. Perhaps they are on a more polluted side of the tracks? Though it doesn't seem that pollution would account for the standard deviation difference. Perhaps I'm just misunderstanding what you are saying. [0]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2628311 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2628311 [1]https://www.cbsnews.com/news/air-pollution-in-womb-linked-to-low-iq/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/air-pollution-in-womb-linked-to...

dragonwriter 9y ago

> The authors also note that adjusting for socioeconomic status does not eliminate the black-white IQ gap. However, they argue that the gap is narrowing. There are known environmental factors in IQ (most notably, early childhood environment factors), and because of de jure and de facto segregation (including redlining), which was quite active until fairly recently historically and continues to have substantial lingering effects on people's environment (even if all such active practices were ended, and some of the de facto practices have not been, that would still be true for a long time unless you randomly relocated the whole population to erase the impacts), so adjusting for socio-economic status other than race does not actually control for the environmental factors that contribute to IQ. As such, the effect identified could plausibly be environmental, which would also explain why it is weakening over time with the elimination of some and erosion of other segregationist practices.

supreme_sublime 9y ago
> There are known environmental factors in IQ (most notably, early childhood environment factors), and because of de jure and de facto segregation (including redlining) Redlining doesn't really have much to do with early childhood malnutrition[0], which is the majority of "early childhood environment factors". Though pollution[1] seems to cause problems as well, which would have more to do with the neighborhood someone lives in. > so adjusting for socio-economic status other than race does not actually control for the environmental factors that contribute to IQ. I'm not sure this follows. Why wouldn't controlling for socioeconomic factors (such as parental income) be able to control for an environmental factor that has been shown to lower IQ (such as malnutrition)? Some of the lines of logic that this would result in are kind of disturbing. It almost seems like you are suggesting that black people being segregated (via redlining) to be around other black people will make them have a lower IQ, even if they are just as wealthy as the white people across the railroad tracks. Perhaps they are on a more polluted side of the tracks? Though it doesn't seem that pollution would account for the standard deviation difference. Perhaps I'm just misunderstanding what you are saying. [0]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2628311 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2628311 [1]https://www.cbsnews.com/news/air-pollution-in-womb-linked-to-low-iq/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/air-pollution-in-womb-linked-to...