5 ms·

>But it was never a successful design. Women found staying at home stifling; teens found suburbia stifling. The lack of a deep social structure deprived parents

>But it was never a successful design. Women found staying at home stifling; teens found suburbia stifling. The lack of a deep social structure deprived parents and children alike of a massive support structure. Do you have any sources supporting this? I'm pretty sure the "nuclear family" + suburbia have worked out fine.

watwut 9y ago
Betty Friedman book gives pretty accurate picture. Plus there was that feminists revolution where women fought to not be at home.
- jimmaswell 9y ago
  Suburbia doesn't preclude two working parents or a stay at home dad.
  - watwut 9y ago
    He asked for source of multiple claims one of which was "Women found staying at home stifling". But I also think that while some dads would be happy at home long term, just like some women really are, majority would have same problems then women at home do. However, the stigma of "it was your choice don't complain" etc could be even larger.
    - jimmaswell 9y ago
      What's stifling about staying at home, and if you have kids, staying at home with the kids? Sounds perfect to me. Exactly what activities are you proposing someone would do in place of staying home that would be less "stifling"? Parks and hiking trails are nice, for one thing, which also happen to be more accessible in suburban or rural areas.
      - watwut 9y ago
        Stay, if you want and if you are that type of person. For me, going to work did the trick, that I would propose. It is risk time for alcoholism and depression, statistically speaking. Social isolation, pretty complete. No external motivation to do anything, little chance to do things you like and even less to do them competitively. It just become all pointless. Loss of confidence. Lack of challenge, especially external challenge. Because your existence is pointless most of time. And people stop treating you as you and star treating you as generic mom. Complete routine, every day the same. I mean, that book was pretty accurate. And that hiking around becomes same old slooow quite quickly. But really, if you have that kind of personality that is happy in such situation and just can't wait to hike with kiddo, go for it.
dkhenry 9y ago
I am curious to hear your take on the benefits of suburbia? To me I see people with long commutes, who live in relative isolation. They waste resources and time they lead to sprawl that destroys landscapes. They have made us dependent on cars and high energy transportation mechanisms. They have increased the wealth gap, and increased our segregation. As a follow on to results of their increased overhead they have made it harder for families to operate in a normal fashion. Kids have a lower density of fellow kids, and rely on parents for driving them around to places, parents spend less time with their partners and family's due to longer commutes and more overhead with doing anything, because of that overhead we started to outsource all aspects of family life ( childcare, cooking, entertainment ). In general I see the suburbs as an abject failure.
- anon1979 9y ago
  Not all suburbs are the same. I live in suburban Minneapolis and most things seem to work pretty well. The schools are great, the houses are fairly large and comfortable, the commutes for most people I know are not very long, the yards are big (and enjoyed), there are lots bike rail trails, and weekend summer days are full of people walking, riding, etc. The big downside is that kids do need to be driven places, which is less true "in town", but it's not like the suburbs don't have lots of advantages too. Even the millennials are now starting to finally get married and have kids, and guess what: they are moving to the suburbs too. I don't begrudge anyone their preferences, but all this hipster trashing of the 'burbs just flies in the face of what most families actual want.
  - dkhenry 9y ago
    As one of those Millennials who has kids, I can tell you the push to the suburbs is mainly due to the supply of houses and the prices in cities not because they offer any better quality of living. From everyone I have talked to they would prefer not to be in the suburbs, but because for the past 60 years that is where we built all the houses for families there isn't much of an option. Take a look at housing prices for three bedroom houses and notice how big of a drop in price there is once you get outside the city. People aren't moving to the suburbs because they are better, they are moving there because that's the only thing they can afford. Developers have no incentive to build family sized houses in the city as its cuts into their profits and after decades of family flight to the suburbs there is no one on city councils to actually make zoning laws to accommodate what people want.

watwut 9y ago

Betty Friedman book gives pretty accurate picture. Plus there was that feminists revolution where women fought to not be at home.

jimmaswell 9y ago
Suburbia doesn't preclude two working parents or a stay at home dad.
- watwut 9y ago
  He asked for source of multiple claims one of which was "Women found staying at home stifling". But I also think that while some dads would be happy at home long term, just like some women really are, majority would have same problems then women at home do. However, the stigma of "it was your choice don't complain" etc could be even larger.
  - jimmaswell 9y ago
    What's stifling about staying at home, and if you have kids, staying at home with the kids? Sounds perfect to me. Exactly what activities are you proposing someone would do in place of staying home that would be less "stifling"? Parks and hiking trails are nice, for one thing, which also happen to be more accessible in suburban or rural areas.
    - watwut 9y ago
      Stay, if you want and if you are that type of person. For me, going to work did the trick, that I would propose. It is risk time for alcoholism and depression, statistically speaking. Social isolation, pretty complete. No external motivation to do anything, little chance to do things you like and even less to do them competitively. It just become all pointless. Loss of confidence. Lack of challenge, especially external challenge. Because your existence is pointless most of time. And people stop treating you as you and star treating you as generic mom. Complete routine, every day the same. I mean, that book was pretty accurate. And that hiking around becomes same old slooow quite quickly. But really, if you have that kind of personality that is happy in such situation and just can't wait to hike with kiddo, go for it.

dkhenry 9y ago

I am curious to hear your take on the benefits of suburbia? To me I see people with long commutes, who live in relative isolation. They waste resources and time they lead to sprawl that destroys landscapes. They have made us dependent on cars and high energy transportation mechanisms. They have increased the wealth gap, and increased our segregation. As a follow on to results of their increased overhead they have made it harder for families to operate in a normal fashion. Kids have a lower density of fellow kids, and rely on parents for driving them around to places, parents spend less time with their partners and family's due to longer commutes and more overhead with doing anything, because of that overhead we started to outsource all aspects of family life ( childcare, cooking, entertainment ). In general I see the suburbs as an abject failure.

anon1979 9y ago
Not all suburbs are the same. I live in suburban Minneapolis and most things seem to work pretty well. The schools are great, the houses are fairly large and comfortable, the commutes for most people I know are not very long, the yards are big (and enjoyed), there are lots bike rail trails, and weekend summer days are full of people walking, riding, etc. The big downside is that kids do need to be driven places, which is less true "in town", but it's not like the suburbs don't have lots of advantages too. Even the millennials are now starting to finally get married and have kids, and guess what: they are moving to the suburbs too. I don't begrudge anyone their preferences, but all this hipster trashing of the 'burbs just flies in the face of what most families actual want.
- dkhenry 9y ago
  As one of those Millennials who has kids, I can tell you the push to the suburbs is mainly due to the supply of houses and the prices in cities not because they offer any better quality of living. From everyone I have talked to they would prefer not to be in the suburbs, but because for the past 60 years that is where we built all the houses for families there isn't much of an option. Take a look at housing prices for three bedroom houses and notice how big of a drop in price there is once you get outside the city. People aren't moving to the suburbs because they are better, they are moving there because that's the only thing they can afford. Developers have no incentive to build family sized houses in the city as its cuts into their profits and after decades of family flight to the suburbs there is no one on city councils to actually make zoning laws to accommodate what people want.