4 ms·

I sympathize with the people, but why is our society like this? A society that punishes having children is almost by definition dysfunctional.

by Torgo 9y ago

sremani 9y ago
Forget about dysfunctional, it has no FUTURE.
sidlls 9y ago
It's like this because people are inclined to instant gratification. In America this effect with respect to raising children augments the inclination toward selfishness (disguised as individualism).
- ajmurmann 9y ago
  Looking at birthrates in other countries I'm not inclined to believe this phenomenon is limited to the US. In fact it seems weaker than in many other developed countries. I'm also not sure if I would call it selfish to decide against reproducing yourself. The other extreme of having children just because you want them for yourself and then not being able to give them proper opportunities is much more selfish to me. I think we should try to avoid moral judgements of people we don't know especially on something this intimate.
  - sidlls 9y ago
    I'd be more inclined to agree with you if the language of people who eschew children weren't so often focused on their selves ("independence", "freedom", etc.) or simultaneously accusational ("how could you bring a child into this world!"). "Selfish" isn't a moral judgement in this case: it's an accurate description.
    - vigilantpuma 9y ago
      I think having children is pretty selfish also. You bring a child into this world... for what? To see yourself continued in the next generation? To make some future friends for yourself? To have that experience? How are these not selfish things? Both choices are selfish in different ways. The fact that one requires some personal sacrifice doesn't make it selfless.
ajmurmann 9y ago
I think it's partially a outcome of work getting more specialized. You need to move to find work that's a good fit and you need to move before that to acquire that skill set at a good University. If you don't get very skilled you likely will end up poor at some point which brings its own issues. It's true in any developed country I know of. Fingers crossed that this is temporary till remote work and education becomes the norm and we maybe even get guaranteed basic income.

I sympathize with the people, but why is our society like this? A society that punishes having children is almost by definition dysfunctional.

by Torgo 9y ago

I sympathize with the people, but why is our society like this? A society that punishes having children is almost by definition dysfunctional.

sremani 9y ago

Forget about dysfunctional, it has no FUTURE.

sidlls 9y ago

It's like this because people are inclined to instant gratification. In America this effect with respect to raising children augments the inclination toward selfishness (disguised as individualism).

ajmurmann 9y ago
Looking at birthrates in other countries I'm not inclined to believe this phenomenon is limited to the US. In fact it seems weaker than in many other developed countries. I'm also not sure if I would call it selfish to decide against reproducing yourself. The other extreme of having children just because you want them for yourself and then not being able to give them proper opportunities is much more selfish to me. I think we should try to avoid moral judgements of people we don't know especially on something this intimate.
- sidlls 9y ago
  I'd be more inclined to agree with you if the language of people who eschew children weren't so often focused on their selves ("independence", "freedom", etc.) or simultaneously accusational ("how could you bring a child into this world!"). "Selfish" isn't a moral judgement in this case: it's an accurate description.
  - vigilantpuma 9y ago
    I think having children is pretty selfish also. You bring a child into this world... for what? To see yourself continued in the next generation? To make some future friends for yourself? To have that experience? How are these not selfish things? Both choices are selfish in different ways. The fact that one requires some personal sacrifice doesn't make it selfless.

ajmurmann 9y ago

I think it's partially a outcome of work getting more specialized. You need to move to find work that's a good fit and you need to move before that to acquire that skill set at a good University. If you don't get very skilled you likely will end up poor at some point which brings its own issues. It's true in any developed country I know of. Fingers crossed that this is temporary till remote work and education becomes the norm and we maybe even get guaranteed basic income.