5 ms·

I drove the Tesla Model 3 and it's not 'mainstream'

44 points by evo_9 9y ago

freehunter 9y ago
This is a pretty sparse article/video that doesn't quite back up the premise of the headline, which is "the only people who will buy one are Tesla people". Basically the single complaint is "the gauges and controls are on a touchscreen". There's a side complaint of "the one I drove was really expensive" but those are options, which every vehicle has. Everything else is "it's fast and exciting and fun" which sounds pretty appealing.
- sathackr 9y ago
  At the end I was scrolling down looking for the rest of the article.
- conception 9y ago
  I have the new Prius Prime that uses a giant touchscreen as well and not using mechanical controls for things like AC and Radio at least partially is a terrible trend. It's so distracting being unable to adjust things without looking away from the road.
  - koolba 9y ago
    You’re not alone. My favorite interfaces on cars for the AC are the simple two analog dials, one for temperature and one for fan strength. Ditto for radio ... nothing beats an analog spinner with discrete clicks.
    - prklmn 9y ago
      Totally agree. The car manufacturers threw some of the principles of car evolution out the window when things went digital.
  - westoque 9y ago
    I believe NOT using mechanical controls is a step in the right direction for UI/UX in cars. Eventually this will lead to voice controls which will ultimately be safer.
    - TheSmiddy 9y ago
      Why not both? I don't want to be doing voice commands while I have a baby sleeping in the back seat for example.
    - mixmax 9y ago
      ah yes, voice control.... In your tesla all you might have to do is say "left driver seat window down" and the window opens. If you only want it halfway down you will have to say "stop" at the right point. Of course if your aunt borrows your car she will have no idea how to roll down the window because she doesn't know the proper voice control. Of course it won't work when the window is open and you're driving fast because of the noise. Of course you won't be able to remember all of the voice controls, and will inevitably end up screaming at your car to open the hood because you don't remember exactly which words to use. Of course, before you go on your first ride you should read the manual and memorise all the voice controls. Of course you should never say the words "open hood" while driving for obvious reasons. Do you still think voice control is a great idea in a car?
      - westoque 9y ago
        True. Thanks for enlightening me. Maybe a combination of a more seamless UI like Star Trek along voice with control then?
    - nitrogen 9y ago
      Eventually this will lead to voice controls... Voice controls as imagined by science fiction like Star Trek and implemented by Apple, Amazon, some cars, etc. are one of the worst UI designs imaginable. Vocal communication is a Hollywood trope to make up for the fact that flipping a light switch doesn't make for compelling television. Vocal communication is slow, ambiguous, leaky, and distracting, whereas mechanical interfaces can be operated almost subconsciously. How long does it take you to depress the brake pedal in a car, versus, "Okay Google, [long pause, waiting for enough cell bandwidth] please stop before you hit that car in front of me!" Sure, you might say cars will take care of stopping automatically. But that just proves the point that voice is an unsuitable UI medium. And cars don't yet stop autonomously with 100% reliability, and there are a thousand less critical but more common interactions with everyday systems that are just ridiculous for voice: turning on lights, adjusting the volume of a stereo, locking a door, etc. The last holiday party I went to the hosts were using an Echo for music, and the entire conversation had to pause for 30 seconds every time someone wanted to change the volume. Give me sensor-based automation, give me switches and knobs, give me anything but a voice interface.
  - ridgeguy 9y ago
    Totally with you. My next "new" car will be something used that has physical dials and switches. I'll spend the differential $ on rebuilding engine/trannie and other wearable components. I do not ever want to look away from my driver's sight picture to adjust something like AC or radio.
    - __david__ 9y ago
      So I like physical controls too but I'm thinking of my current car that has them and I'm sure that I end up looking at them when I use them. If it doesn't involve digging around in menus then it's probably about the same, distraction-wise.
      - ridgeguy 9y ago
        I've found that after about 6 months I find the controls by touch with no need to look at them. Touch screens more than one level deep never have worked as well for me in that respect.
- cma 9y ago
  >but those are options, which every vehicle has. > Everything else is "it's fast and exciting and fun" which sounds pretty appealing. These two are in conflict. The main expensive option was the range option, which also makes it accelerate faster.
  - freehunter 9y ago
    Are you saying the base model is slower than a comparable gasoline car? Are you also claiming that most cars don't have options that include items that make the car faster? Like turbos, bigger engines, etc?
    - cma 9y ago
      Nope. I'm claiming the reviewer's stuff about the car's feeling was also based on the options, though he did say he would try to "mentally subtract them". Seems like it would be better to just get a review from someone who tried the base model, rather than someone trying to mentally subtract them. Especially when they are as tactile as drive feel.
- zzzzzzzza 9y ago
  "But compared to similarly priced cars it's not worth it"
  - freehunter 9y ago
    Similarly priced $50,000 cars. But what about similarly priced $30,000 cars?
atonse 9y ago
Wow that article was low on substance. Basically the author wanted more physical buttons. Everything else was a compliment.
- carlivar 9y ago
  He said the lack of buttons was extremely distracting. That's only one problem, but a big problem.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- djsumdog 9y ago
  The article doesn't make a lot of sense by itself. It's more a direct writeup of the video.
outworlder 9y ago
So it is good looking, it is fun to drive, it has a decent base price if you don't splurge on options. Changing speed through the touchscreen when you are using the autopilot hardly seems the end of the world. So almost all positives. I really dislike the center console. At least the speedometer should be visible at all times(a hud focused at infinity would be ideal), everything else is less important. Still, this is becoming a trend now (I'd guess it's for cost-cutting). What about readability of that screen under sunlight? I see nothing in the article addressing that. Is it just a non-issue?
- vvanders 9y ago
  The Saturn Ion had a really similar speedometer placement. I actually liked it since it was in the same horizontal line as the left/right mirrors so it took a little less effort to use.
  - carlivar 9y ago
    This is usually done for cost saving reasons, since the gauges don't need to be moved for right or left hand drive builds. Same goes for center "master power windows" controls, locks, etc Every time I see center mounted stuff I figure it is a global car platform and a cost saving measure.
    - Cyberdog 9y ago
      The steering wheel assembly itself still goes on one side or the other, though. If they have to be non-symmetrical about that, they can find a way to be non-symmetrical with a simple speedometer too.
    - vvanders 9y ago
      Sure, I know that's part of it. That said it doesn't preclude that I found it easier to use.
  - lobster_johnson 9y ago
    Cooper Mini and Toyota Yaris, too, and probably a bunch of others. It's not an unusual design.
carlivar 9y ago
Does the Model 3 have an API? I wonder if aftermarket or DIY knobs and buttons and gauges would be possible.
- Aloha 9y ago
  My car probably shouldnt have an API.
  - TheSmiddy 9y ago
    An API for non critical functions is fine: radio, air con, etc. Probably only want a read only one for everything else though.
    - Aloha 9y ago
      Generally what goes for an API around here involves a javascript library, a internet connection, and a sizable amount of data transfer.. and to remotely control something like a thermostat 2-3 feet away from me I have to send packets half way around the world - I'm okay without any of this. If I want to control shit over CANBUS I can.
  - _cabasse 9y ago
    There's already a standardised bus for data transfer between systems (canbus) so why not an API?
    - Aloha 9y ago
      I would rather just connect thru CANBUS
- Cyberdog 9y ago
  It kind of does. All modern cars have an "on-board diagnostics" port that devices can plug into to get information about the car, including while it's moving. There are various devices you can buy (Verizon has been marketing one called Hum a lot recently) that can connect to the OBD port and do various things with the information there, such as send you a text if your kid is driving it too quickly or if the car is reporting a fault somewhere. This connector is the same one that service garages hook their diagnostic equipment up to to when you take it in. I'd imagine someone clever enough could wire together a speedometer which connects to the OBD's connector and shows a current speed, though I'm not sure if there are compromises on resolution or sampling time or that sort of thing.
djsumdog 9y ago
What a terrible UI for ... everything. Everything via the touch screen? Including mirrors? windows? Are you fucking kidding me? And I don't want to hear that, "Well with the assisted pilot" (and no, not "auto pilot", what a stupid marketing ploy. It's not autonomous and you shouldn't give drivers a false sense of security so they're less engaged when driving). For the $57k price, there should be a heads up display with all relevant data, or at least the option for one. Also, what is this stupid UI choice recently in "less is more?" There are so many devices out there today with "one button" and different LED flashing patterns you have to remember for use. Do the windows really not have power buttons, because dropping the window at a drive through is going to be super annoying and more complicated than it should be. Edit: spelling
- Cyberdog 9y ago
  They have to put at least a frickin' speedometer front and center (relative to the driver), and preferably a battery level meter too. It couldn't cost that much more to put one there. Would be very surprised if there doesn't end up being a market for aftermarket mods for that sort of thing. Hopefully Tesla takes the hint and fixes it on the next iteration.
  - bitcurious 9y ago
    I read that putting the speedometer off on the side was done partially in the name of safety. Supposedly, it's easier for your eyes to switch focus between intermediate (center console) and far (road) distances. Not sure where I read that though.
  - tinalumfoil 9y ago
    Personally, I can't imagine the speedometer bothering me. What really bothers me is the lack of tactile controls. When I'm driving in tough conditions (or any conditions for that matter) I need to be able to change basic controls without looking. For instance, if I sense something's amiss and decide the volume is too loud, I can't be playing fat fingers with the touchscreen.
    - 9y ago
kbenson 9y ago
It could just be me, but every time I see a video review of a car and it's not Brian Cooley doing it, I think Brian Cooley would do this better, and he'd sound better doing it. He makes every review interesting.
YouKnowBetter 9y ago
TL;DR It is a car made for people who do not like driving cars the old way. Huge market: old people, easily distracted people, people who are not petrolheads. But surely all car review experts will miss the current interfaces we have grown to love and like. I have issues with every single car that tries to modernize the interface. Think Citroen with it's odd satelites, think BMW with it's knob-thiny, but every once in a while there are changes that are just fantastic: HUD! Steeringwheel heating! DSG!
akmarinov 9y ago
So the main problem for the author is the instruments cluster, it seems. They keep mentioning other cars that they’d like to have at various price points, yet don’t offer any concrete models and don’t mention any pluses and minuses they might have. It just seems like a random rant, that’s not that objective.

44 points by evo_9 9y ago

This is a pretty sparse article/video that doesn't quite back up the premise of the headline, which is "the only people who will buy one are Tesla people". Basically the single complaint is "the gauges and controls are on a touchscreen". There's a side complaint of "the one I drove was really expensive" but those are options, which every vehicle has. Everything else is "it's fast and exciting and fun" which sounds pretty appealing.

sathackr 9y ago
At the end I was scrolling down looking for the rest of the article.
conception 9y ago
I have the new Prius Prime that uses a giant touchscreen as well and not using mechanical controls for things like AC and Radio at least partially is a terrible trend. It's so distracting being unable to adjust things without looking away from the road.
- koolba 9y ago
  You’re not alone. My favorite interfaces on cars for the AC are the simple two analog dials, one for temperature and one for fan strength. Ditto for radio ... nothing beats an analog spinner with discrete clicks.
  - prklmn 9y ago
    Totally agree. The car manufacturers threw some of the principles of car evolution out the window when things went digital.
- westoque 9y ago
  I believe NOT using mechanical controls is a step in the right direction for UI/UX in cars. Eventually this will lead to voice controls which will ultimately be safer.
  - TheSmiddy 9y ago
    Why not both? I don't want to be doing voice commands while I have a baby sleeping in the back seat for example.
  - mixmax 9y ago
    ah yes, voice control.... In your tesla all you might have to do is say "left driver seat window down" and the window opens. If you only want it halfway down you will have to say "stop" at the right point. Of course if your aunt borrows your car she will have no idea how to roll down the window because she doesn't know the proper voice control. Of course it won't work when the window is open and you're driving fast because of the noise. Of course you won't be able to remember all of the voice controls, and will inevitably end up screaming at your car to open the hood because you don't remember exactly which words to use. Of course, before you go on your first ride you should read the manual and memorise all the voice controls. Of course you should never say the words "open hood" while driving for obvious reasons. Do you still think voice control is a great idea in a car?
    - westoque 9y ago
      True. Thanks for enlightening me. Maybe a combination of a more seamless UI like Star Trek along voice with control then?
  - nitrogen 9y ago
    Eventually this will lead to voice controls... Voice controls as imagined by science fiction like Star Trek and implemented by Apple, Amazon, some cars, etc. are one of the worst UI designs imaginable. Vocal communication is a Hollywood trope to make up for the fact that flipping a light switch doesn't make for compelling television. Vocal communication is slow, ambiguous, leaky, and distracting, whereas mechanical interfaces can be operated almost subconsciously. How long does it take you to depress the brake pedal in a car, versus, "Okay Google, [long pause, waiting for enough cell bandwidth] please stop before you hit that car in front of me!" Sure, you might say cars will take care of stopping automatically. But that just proves the point that voice is an unsuitable UI medium. And cars don't yet stop autonomously with 100% reliability, and there are a thousand less critical but more common interactions with everyday systems that are just ridiculous for voice: turning on lights, adjusting the volume of a stereo, locking a door, etc. The last holiday party I went to the hosts were using an Echo for music, and the entire conversation had to pause for 30 seconds every time someone wanted to change the volume. Give me sensor-based automation, give me switches and knobs, give me anything but a voice interface.
- ridgeguy 9y ago
  Totally with you. My next "new" car will be something used that has physical dials and switches. I'll spend the differential $ on rebuilding engine/trannie and other wearable components. I do not ever want to look away from my driver's sight picture to adjust something like AC or radio.
  - __david__ 9y ago
    So I like physical controls too but I'm thinking of my current car that has them and I'm sure that I end up looking at them when I use them. If it doesn't involve digging around in menus then it's probably about the same, distraction-wise.
    - ridgeguy 9y ago
      I've found that after about 6 months I find the controls by touch with no need to look at them. Touch screens more than one level deep never have worked as well for me in that respect.
cma 9y ago
>but those are options, which every vehicle has. > Everything else is "it's fast and exciting and fun" which sounds pretty appealing. These two are in conflict. The main expensive option was the range option, which also makes it accelerate faster.
- freehunter 9y ago
  Are you saying the base model is slower than a comparable gasoline car? Are you also claiming that most cars don't have options that include items that make the car faster? Like turbos, bigger engines, etc?
  - cma 9y ago
    Nope. I'm claiming the reviewer's stuff about the car's feeling was also based on the options, though he did say he would try to "mentally subtract them". Seems like it would be better to just get a review from someone who tried the base model, rather than someone trying to mentally subtract them. Especially when they are as tactile as drive feel.
zzzzzzzza 9y ago
"But compared to similarly priced cars it's not worth it"
- freehunter 9y ago
  Similarly priced $50,000 cars. But what about similarly priced $30,000 cars?

atonse 9y ago

Wow that article was low on substance. Basically the author wanted more physical buttons. Everything else was a compliment.

carlivar 9y ago
He said the lack of buttons was extremely distracting. That's only one problem, but a big problem.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
djsumdog 9y ago
The article doesn't make a lot of sense by itself. It's more a direct writeup of the video.

outworlder 9y ago

So it is good looking, it is fun to drive, it has a decent base price if you don't splurge on options. Changing speed through the touchscreen when you are using the autopilot hardly seems the end of the world. So almost all positives. I really dislike the center console. At least the speedometer should be visible at all times(a hud focused at infinity would be ideal), everything else is less important. Still, this is becoming a trend now (I'd guess it's for cost-cutting). What about readability of that screen under sunlight? I see nothing in the article addressing that. Is it just a non-issue?

vvanders 9y ago
The Saturn Ion had a really similar speedometer placement. I actually liked it since it was in the same horizontal line as the left/right mirrors so it took a little less effort to use.
- carlivar 9y ago
  This is usually done for cost saving reasons, since the gauges don't need to be moved for right or left hand drive builds. Same goes for center "master power windows" controls, locks, etc Every time I see center mounted stuff I figure it is a global car platform and a cost saving measure.
  - Cyberdog 9y ago
    The steering wheel assembly itself still goes on one side or the other, though. If they have to be non-symmetrical about that, they can find a way to be non-symmetrical with a simple speedometer too.
  - vvanders 9y ago
    Sure, I know that's part of it. That said it doesn't preclude that I found it easier to use.
- lobster_johnson 9y ago
  Cooper Mini and Toyota Yaris, too, and probably a bunch of others. It's not an unusual design.

carlivar 9y ago

Does the Model 3 have an API? I wonder if aftermarket or DIY knobs and buttons and gauges would be possible.

Aloha 9y ago
My car probably shouldnt have an API.
- TheSmiddy 9y ago
  An API for non critical functions is fine: radio, air con, etc. Probably only want a read only one for everything else though.
  - Aloha 9y ago
    Generally what goes for an API around here involves a javascript library, a internet connection, and a sizable amount of data transfer.. and to remotely control something like a thermostat 2-3 feet away from me I have to send packets half way around the world - I'm okay without any of this. If I want to control shit over CANBUS I can.
- _cabasse 9y ago
  There's already a standardised bus for data transfer between systems (canbus) so why not an API?
  - Aloha 9y ago
    I would rather just connect thru CANBUS
Cyberdog 9y ago
It kind of does. All modern cars have an "on-board diagnostics" port that devices can plug into to get information about the car, including while it's moving. There are various devices you can buy (Verizon has been marketing one called Hum a lot recently) that can connect to the OBD port and do various things with the information there, such as send you a text if your kid is driving it too quickly or if the car is reporting a fault somewhere. This connector is the same one that service garages hook their diagnostic equipment up to to when you take it in. I'd imagine someone clever enough could wire together a speedometer which connects to the OBD's connector and shows a current speed, though I'm not sure if there are compromises on resolution or sampling time or that sort of thing.

djsumdog 9y ago

What a terrible UI for ... everything. Everything via the touch screen? Including mirrors? windows? Are you fucking kidding me? And I don't want to hear that, "Well with the assisted pilot" (and no, not "auto pilot", what a stupid marketing ploy. It's not autonomous and you shouldn't give drivers a false sense of security so they're less engaged when driving). For the $57k price, there should be a heads up display with all relevant data, or at least the option for one. Also, what is this stupid UI choice recently in "less is more?" There are so many devices out there today with "one button" and different LED flashing patterns you have to remember for use. Do the windows really not have power buttons, because dropping the window at a drive through is going to be super annoying and more complicated than it should be. Edit: spelling

Cyberdog 9y ago
They have to put at least a frickin' speedometer front and center (relative to the driver), and preferably a battery level meter too. It couldn't cost that much more to put one there. Would be very surprised if there doesn't end up being a market for aftermarket mods for that sort of thing. Hopefully Tesla takes the hint and fixes it on the next iteration.
- bitcurious 9y ago
  I read that putting the speedometer off on the side was done partially in the name of safety. Supposedly, it's easier for your eyes to switch focus between intermediate (center console) and far (road) distances. Not sure where I read that though.
- tinalumfoil 9y ago
  Personally, I can't imagine the speedometer bothering me. What really bothers me is the lack of tactile controls. When I'm driving in tough conditions (or any conditions for that matter) I need to be able to change basic controls without looking. For instance, if I sense something's amiss and decide the volume is too loud, I can't be playing fat fingers with the touchscreen.
  - 9y ago

kbenson 9y ago

It could just be me, but every time I see a video review of a car and it's not Brian Cooley doing it, I think Brian Cooley would do this better, and he'd sound better doing it. He makes every review interesting.

YouKnowBetter 9y ago

TL;DR It is a car made for people who do not like driving cars the old way. Huge market: old people, easily distracted people, people who are not petrolheads. But surely all car review experts will miss the current interfaces we have grown to love and like. I have issues with every single car that tries to modernize the interface. Think Citroen with it's odd satelites, think BMW with it's knob-thiny, but every once in a while there are changes that are just fantastic: HUD! Steeringwheel heating! DSG!

akmarinov 9y ago

So the main problem for the author is the instruments cluster, it seems. They keep mentioning other cars that they’d like to have at various price points, yet don’t offer any concrete models and don’t mention any pluses and minuses they might have. It just seems like a random rant, that’s not that objective.