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"I state upfront that I have zero React experience because 99.999999% of tech companies want someone with 18 years of experience with a four-year-old JavaScript

"I state upfront that I have zero React experience because 99.999999% of tech companies want someone with 18 years of experience with a four-year-old JavaScript framework. I'm being facetious here but that requirement is ridiculous for a fad. Writing CSS in JS? GROSS." You don't have experience 99% of employers want, and your response is to stubbornly write it off as a fad? Maybe that's got something to do with it? If you have zero experience, how do you know it's gross?

morinted 9y ago
"I hate what I don't understand"
thidr0 9y ago
That's like a company saying "We make a product, but 99.999999% of our target market want some feature we don't have. IDIOTS!" Guess what, in this scenario, you (specifically your labor) is the product.
azangru 9y ago
I am actually wondering how many readers of the blog post rolled their eyes here. I am not saying that React is the best thing ever; there may be different arguments against using it, but man, this "CSS in JS" (or, alternatively, "HTML in JS") argument is not even funny anymore. I would have discarded this as a meaningless complaint coming from a hardcore backend developer who is repeating the principles of single responsibility and separation of concerns he has heard in older days and has not yet had a chance to realize that a component is no lesser way of thinking about separation of concerns than an html or a css file. But judging by the appearance of the blog site, the author is a frontend developer, with pretty decent skills. I am confused.
- Clubber 9y ago
  As a mostly back end developer, snazzy front end templates are either cheap or free.
  - magnetic 9y ago
    Could you please provide some pointers to those? Thx.
    - Clubber 9y ago
      Google "free html5 templates" or replace html5 with your preferred framework. Here's one. https://themewagon.com/theme_tag/free/ https://themewagon.com/theme_tag/free/
      - magnetic 9y ago
        Thanks!
- NetOpWibby 9y ago
  That's just one of the things that I don't like about React. I guess I'm old-school? I like Handlebars, Sass, and of course HTML/CSS/JS and I do use JS frameworks (Express/Feathers).
NetOpWibby 9y ago
I have zero experience in writing applications with it but I do know of it. I investigate it every now and then to see what's going on with it. Even I started writing a React app the day I became unemployed, I still wouldn't have the years of experience a lot of these companies are asking for. Maybe "fad" wasn't the best word choice but you know how it is. How many frameworks are introduced to HN? You never know which one is going to be popular.
- cookiecaper 9y ago
  > I have zero experience in writing applications with it but I do know of it. I investigate it every now and then to see what's going on with it. Even I started writing a React app the day I became unemployed, I still wouldn't have the years of experience a lot of these companies are asking for. Don't get hung up on what job listings say verbatim/literally. Most people are reasonably flexible about it, they just have to put something out there. If you know what you're doing and are otherwise a good hire, you shouldn't let the details of a single bullet point on the job listing deter you. The more significant thing is probably that they can tell you're looking down on their decision for React before you're even in the door. If you sound open-minded about it, and especially if you flatter the interviewers by stating that you're excited to learn it from them, you'll probably start doing better here. With specific regard to React, it's hard to call it a fad anymore. "Virtual DOM" is going to stick around whether it's in the form of React or not. I personally do wish that there were better resources geared toward experienced backend devs for it, but c'est la vie. You should get some basic experience with it so you can at least get a grasp on the concepts and the verbiage. I say this as a dev with a palpable dislike for the JavaScript ecosystem, and a visceral hatred for its encroachments into the backend. I agree with the substance of many of your complaints (to be honest, I just skimmed the post, but the overarching points of way too many hoops and arbitrary dismissals after wasting a lot of time are solid) but I think there is too much edge/hostility in the post. I understand it's posted as "a rant" so maybe it's just about the venue/context, but I think you're going to get a lot of complaints about the tone here.
  - NetOpWibby 9y ago
    Yeah I've gotten about dismissive comments about tone, which is understandable. In interviews I've had, I get questioned about frameworks so I figured stating my experience upfront would be one less question. I haven't thought about it possibly being perceived as dismissive before.
Drdrdrq 9y ago
Also, I recently gave in and ditched jQuery for React, and must say it's not that bad... It's quite a joy to use actually once you learn the concepts. One needs to look up all new JS "improvements" though to use it. Especially in larger projects with multiple developers it keeps the codebase much more manageable than oldskool js.
megous 9y ago
All web frameworks solve basically the same set of problems. If you're someone with a very good knowledge of the web platform, who has seen these problems solved in miriad of ways already, job requirements usually seems rather faddish and arbitrary, I can tell you.
- NetOpWibby 9y ago
  Exactly!

morinted 9y ago

"I hate what I don't understand"

thidr0 9y ago

That's like a company saying "We make a product, but 99.999999% of our target market want some feature we don't have. IDIOTS!" Guess what, in this scenario, you (specifically your labor) is the product.

azangru 9y ago

I am actually wondering how many readers of the blog post rolled their eyes here. I am not saying that React is the best thing ever; there may be different arguments against using it, but man, this "CSS in JS" (or, alternatively, "HTML in JS") argument is not even funny anymore. I would have discarded this as a meaningless complaint coming from a hardcore backend developer who is repeating the principles of single responsibility and separation of concerns he has heard in older days and has not yet had a chance to realize that a component is no lesser way of thinking about separation of concerns than an html or a css file. But judging by the appearance of the blog site, the author is a frontend developer, with pretty decent skills. I am confused.

Clubber 9y ago
As a mostly back end developer, snazzy front end templates are either cheap or free.
- magnetic 9y ago
  Could you please provide some pointers to those? Thx.
  - Clubber 9y ago
    Google "free html5 templates" or replace html5 with your preferred framework. Here's one. https://themewagon.com/theme_tag/free/ https://themewagon.com/theme_tag/free/
    - magnetic 9y ago
      Thanks!
NetOpWibby 9y ago
That's just one of the things that I don't like about React. I guess I'm old-school? I like Handlebars, Sass, and of course HTML/CSS/JS and I do use JS frameworks (Express/Feathers).

NetOpWibby 9y ago

I have zero experience in writing applications with it but I do know of it. I investigate it every now and then to see what's going on with it. Even I started writing a React app the day I became unemployed, I still wouldn't have the years of experience a lot of these companies are asking for. Maybe "fad" wasn't the best word choice but you know how it is. How many frameworks are introduced to HN? You never know which one is going to be popular.

cookiecaper 9y ago
> I have zero experience in writing applications with it but I do know of it. I investigate it every now and then to see what's going on with it. Even I started writing a React app the day I became unemployed, I still wouldn't have the years of experience a lot of these companies are asking for. Don't get hung up on what job listings say verbatim/literally. Most people are reasonably flexible about it, they just have to put something out there. If you know what you're doing and are otherwise a good hire, you shouldn't let the details of a single bullet point on the job listing deter you. The more significant thing is probably that they can tell you're looking down on their decision for React before you're even in the door. If you sound open-minded about it, and especially if you flatter the interviewers by stating that you're excited to learn it from them, you'll probably start doing better here. With specific regard to React, it's hard to call it a fad anymore. "Virtual DOM" is going to stick around whether it's in the form of React or not. I personally do wish that there were better resources geared toward experienced backend devs for it, but c'est la vie. You should get some basic experience with it so you can at least get a grasp on the concepts and the verbiage. I say this as a dev with a palpable dislike for the JavaScript ecosystem, and a visceral hatred for its encroachments into the backend. I agree with the substance of many of your complaints (to be honest, I just skimmed the post, but the overarching points of way too many hoops and arbitrary dismissals after wasting a lot of time are solid) but I think there is too much edge/hostility in the post. I understand it's posted as "a rant" so maybe it's just about the venue/context, but I think you're going to get a lot of complaints about the tone here.
- NetOpWibby 9y ago
  Yeah I've gotten about dismissive comments about tone, which is understandable. In interviews I've had, I get questioned about frameworks so I figured stating my experience upfront would be one less question. I haven't thought about it possibly being perceived as dismissive before.

Drdrdrq 9y ago

Also, I recently gave in and ditched jQuery for React, and must say it's not that bad... It's quite a joy to use actually once you learn the concepts. One needs to look up all new JS "improvements" though to use it. Especially in larger projects with multiple developers it keeps the codebase much more manageable than oldskool js.

megous 9y ago

All web frameworks solve basically the same set of problems. If you're someone with a very good knowledge of the web platform, who has seen these problems solved in miriad of ways already, job requirements usually seems rather faddish and arbitrary, I can tell you.

NetOpWibby 9y ago
Exactly!