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Seems like something that should be in r/theempiredidnothingwrong. I went into this movie full on ignoring the metaphorical connections to the real world and l

Seems like something that should be in r/theempiredidnothingwrong. I went into this movie full on ignoring the metaphorical connections to the real world and let it exist in my mind as just an entertaining movie and story and to my surprise, it blew me away (although obviously far from perfect). Its interesting to see people pick this movie apart, as if the originals had perfect acting, no flaws, and were the epitome of originality (were you expecting your life to change after watching this?) Personally, I think Luke's change in demeanor was perfect, which not so ironically, he is pretty far from. Luke is human, which he conveys very well and is probably what upsets people the most because he doesn't reach this state of perfection upon which he has mastered the force, his feelings (he's not Leonard Nimoy), and has total control of self (again, not a Leonard Nimoy). Could it be possibly that people are still holding onto the idea fed to those of us born in the 80's and onward that every one of us is "special", that our dreams will come true if we just believe in ourselves and never give up? These may be the people that do not care for the more realistic approach to Luke Skywalker, as opposed to the "one who will bring balance to the force."

mlloyd 9y ago
I just didn't think the movie was as 'fun' as the previous movies. I think the Disney movies are good movies, I felt like the Lucas movies were fun movies. All the rest of it is secondary to that for me.
- Goladus 9y ago
  I think the prequels tried to tell a good story. Apart from a few glaring mistakes(like the idea that Anakin built C-3PO) the story and plot ideas were good enough. But scene to scene, it was poorly executed, with stilted dialog, bad direction (which often shows up as bad acting and unlikable characters), and uneven pacing. There's legitimate character development. The problem is, execution of those character arcs are clumsy or forced and lack the dramatic impact they should have. Certain plotlines are tedious, but you could make an argument that better editing could have fixed those flaws. I think the Disney movies don't even try to tell a good story. The plots barely make sense and frequently violate established rules and conventions for no apparent reason. Apart from perhaps Kylo Ren, the new characters are static and uninteresting. Rey is likeable but has no growth. Finn is likable but isn't believable as an ex-stormtrooper. The relationship between The First Order and the Resistance/Rebellion is muddled and confusing at best. Where the prequels dwelt too much on tedious political details, the sequels go the other direction fail to establish a compelling galactic context for the war. As for Rogue One, I enjoyed that in the way I enjoy a dumb, mindless action movie. The characters were bland and uninteresting and the plot was just barely good enough to keep me interested. The original trilogy had a good well-focused story, a good plot, a simple but sufficiently compelling political context, likable characters that experienced legitimate growth and character arcs. It had exceptional editing, great pacing--albeit slower than any blockbuster you'd see today-- and amazing sound design and music. There are some flaws, and some internal inconsistencies. But it's easy to argue that the major ones, such as Vader being revealed as Luke's father, enhance the story more than detract from it. It makes Obi-Wan's character seem less virtuous, for example-- but he's a fairly minor character and a minor flaw isn't a problem anyway, it makes him seem more human. The original Lucas trilogy wasn't perfect, but it's far superior to either the prequels or the Disney sequels.
Goladus 9y ago
Its interesting to see people pick this movie apart, as if the originals had perfect acting, no flaws, and were the epitome of originality (were you expecting your life to change after watching this?) That's not what I'm seeing at all. What I'm seeing is: The originals, for all their flaws, established and maintained an expansive universe with internally consistent rules and characters. The plots made sense and plot holes rarely undermined the important story or thematic elements. The characters had consistent flaws and experienced growth and real character arcs. The new movies' plots' are barely coherent, shatter suspension of disbelief by constantly violating the rules and conventions of the setting, have characters that range from likeable but boring to annoying and unlikable, and include way too many awkward humor attempts with off-beat non-sequitors. Luke Skywalker is an established character. He was a whiny, impulsive, stargazing youth who ventured into the unknown world beyond for adventure, experiencing struggle, hardship, and loss; finally overcoming those inner demons to rescue his friends (who had suffered because of him) and stand up to the Emperor and redeem his father. This is not to say that you can't turn him into a despondent, disillusioned recluse who casually considers cold-blooded murder, but you need to get him there somehow with a convincing narrative. What I'm seeing consistently is people do not buy the provided explanations. (Although one should also ask if this change really adds anything positive to the story) The new movies, partiularly TFA and TLJ, completely unravel the established rules and established characters. And it's not that these rules are incredibly restrictive, there's volumes and volumes of Expanded Universe content exploring a huge range of themes and narratives and virtually all of them make a reasonable effort to respect and adhere to the established rules and characters in the Universe. (My favorite is the Thrawn Trilogy from Timothy Zahn, while others like Knights of the Old Republic video game...). Disney easily could have told broadly appealing Star Wars stories without violating all these rules and irritating old-school fans for no reason. Could it be possibly that people are still holding onto the idea fed to those of us born in the 80's and onward that every one of us is "special", that our dreams will come true if we just believe in ourselves and never give up? Well, the Rey character seems like the perfect icon for entitled Millenials. She's special just because she's her. She's a nobody but can do everything better than anyone with no effort so long as she has the self-esteem to act. Where Luke had to struggle and learn and grow Rey just mostly coasts. Also note that young Anakin's narrative was essentially "the fall of a prodigy," so it made sense for him to be exceptional in many ways from the beginning. All the established Jedi characters observed him to be something special and unusual (midi-chlorians were stupid at the detail level, but at least it's purpose in the plot consistent with the story goals). Lucas even added a prophecy narrative to explain Anakin's exceptional powers. And even then Anakin still has to train.

mlloyd 9y ago

I just didn't think the movie was as 'fun' as the previous movies. I think the Disney movies are good movies, I felt like the Lucas movies were fun movies. All the rest of it is secondary to that for me.

Goladus 9y ago
I think the prequels tried to tell a good story. Apart from a few glaring mistakes(like the idea that Anakin built C-3PO) the story and plot ideas were good enough. But scene to scene, it was poorly executed, with stilted dialog, bad direction (which often shows up as bad acting and unlikable characters), and uneven pacing. There's legitimate character development. The problem is, execution of those character arcs are clumsy or forced and lack the dramatic impact they should have. Certain plotlines are tedious, but you could make an argument that better editing could have fixed those flaws. I think the Disney movies don't even try to tell a good story. The plots barely make sense and frequently violate established rules and conventions for no apparent reason. Apart from perhaps Kylo Ren, the new characters are static and uninteresting. Rey is likeable but has no growth. Finn is likable but isn't believable as an ex-stormtrooper. The relationship between The First Order and the Resistance/Rebellion is muddled and confusing at best. Where the prequels dwelt too much on tedious political details, the sequels go the other direction fail to establish a compelling galactic context for the war. As for Rogue One, I enjoyed that in the way I enjoy a dumb, mindless action movie. The characters were bland and uninteresting and the plot was just barely good enough to keep me interested. The original trilogy had a good well-focused story, a good plot, a simple but sufficiently compelling political context, likable characters that experienced legitimate growth and character arcs. It had exceptional editing, great pacing--albeit slower than any blockbuster you'd see today-- and amazing sound design and music. There are some flaws, and some internal inconsistencies. But it's easy to argue that the major ones, such as Vader being revealed as Luke's father, enhance the story more than detract from it. It makes Obi-Wan's character seem less virtuous, for example-- but he's a fairly minor character and a minor flaw isn't a problem anyway, it makes him seem more human. The original Lucas trilogy wasn't perfect, but it's far superior to either the prequels or the Disney sequels.

Goladus 9y ago

Its interesting to see people pick this movie apart, as if the originals had perfect acting, no flaws, and were the epitome of originality (were you expecting your life to change after watching this?) That's not what I'm seeing at all. What I'm seeing is: The originals, for all their flaws, established and maintained an expansive universe with internally consistent rules and characters. The plots made sense and plot holes rarely undermined the important story or thematic elements. The characters had consistent flaws and experienced growth and real character arcs. The new movies' plots' are barely coherent, shatter suspension of disbelief by constantly violating the rules and conventions of the setting, have characters that range from likeable but boring to annoying and unlikable, and include way too many awkward humor attempts with off-beat non-sequitors. Luke Skywalker is an established character. He was a whiny, impulsive, stargazing youth who ventured into the unknown world beyond for adventure, experiencing struggle, hardship, and loss; finally overcoming those inner demons to rescue his friends (who had suffered because of him) and stand up to the Emperor and redeem his father. This is not to say that you can't turn him into a despondent, disillusioned recluse who casually considers cold-blooded murder, but you need to get him there somehow with a convincing narrative. What I'm seeing consistently is people do not buy the provided explanations. (Although one should also ask if this change really adds anything positive to the story) The new movies, partiularly TFA and TLJ, completely unravel the established rules and established characters. And it's not that these rules are incredibly restrictive, there's volumes and volumes of Expanded Universe content exploring a huge range of themes and narratives and virtually all of them make a reasonable effort to respect and adhere to the established rules and characters in the Universe. (My favorite is the Thrawn Trilogy from Timothy Zahn, while others like Knights of the Old Republic video game...). Disney easily could have told broadly appealing Star Wars stories without violating all these rules and irritating old-school fans for no reason. Could it be possibly that people are still holding onto the idea fed to those of us born in the 80's and onward that every one of us is "special", that our dreams will come true if we just believe in ourselves and never give up? Well, the Rey character seems like the perfect icon for entitled Millenials. She's special just because she's her. She's a nobody but can do everything better than anyone with no effort so long as she has the self-esteem to act. Where Luke had to struggle and learn and grow Rey just mostly coasts. Also note that young Anakin's narrative was essentially "the fall of a prodigy," so it made sense for him to be exceptional in many ways from the beginning. All the established Jedi characters observed him to be something special and unusual (midi-chlorians were stupid at the detail level, but at least it's purpose in the plot consistent with the story goals). Lucas even added a prophecy narrative to explain Anakin's exceptional powers. And even then Anakin still has to train.