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Hodling is the worst thing about cryptoccurencies most people don't realise. Deflating currencies act as value holders, not as currencies, they don't promote tr

by akerro 9y ago

Hodling is the worst thing about cryptoccurencies most people don't realise. Deflating currencies act as value holders, not as currencies, they don't promote trading or commerce, buying and selling it for physical things. It promotes holding and not selling. This is the opposite of what a currency is. The more people hold, the less chances there are that Bitcoin or other protocols will be ever used to buy a burger from local shop. Look at this, even Bitcoin conference doesn't want to accept BTC in payments for tickets, so where can you use use BTC if not on a BTC conference? https://news.bitcoin.com/miami-bitcoin-conference-stops-accepting-bitcoin-due-to-fees-and-congestion/ https://news.bitcoin.com/miami-bitcoin-conference-stops-acce...

oh_sigh 9y ago
I agree with you somewhat, but before we even care about HODLing, BTC needs to get fees and transaction confirmation times way down for it to be used as a currency. Right now, it can take 10 minutes and $20 to transfer any amount of money on the BTC network. That isn't reasonable to buy a hamburger.
- akerro 9y ago
  BTC is old and deprecated. BTC is now what ARPANET is to the Internet. Without LN and SegWit BTC will suffer long transaction time and high fees before it dies. We all know it, yet, somehow no one cares.
spraak 9y ago
That's very true, but a huge percentage of people recently in the cryptocurrency space are only there to make money. Not many truly care about the technology.
- 0xdeadbeefbabe 9y ago
  But they make money when they stop holding; otherwise it's just a number.
  - spraak 9y ago
    There are many practices like that, though. E.g. you go for a run and then rest. The run still benefits you, just as holding crypto let's it increase in value. But you eventually stop running to rest, and in the same way, cash out your hold.
seanalltogether 9y ago
Maybe it's time we stop calling these cryptocurrencies and call them what they really are, cryptostocks.
- gruez 9y ago
  they're not stocks because stocks gives you equity in a company. there's no bitcoin, inc or ethereum, inc.
  - snikeris 9y ago
    They also don't pay dividends.
  - coralreef 9y ago
    To be technical, some tokens are offering "dividends" these days, ex. sharing trading profits of a blockchain decentralized exchange. But I guess these tokens don't strictly represent a cryptocurrency, maybe a single cryptoasset more so. But those tokens could be traded like a currency...so it gets kind of confusing.
snikeris 9y ago
> Deflating currencies act as value holders, not as currencies, they don't promote trading or commerce, buying and selling it for physical things. I know this is the commonly accepted reason why inflation is good and deflation is bad. But isn't this just coercion? Here's your paycheck. You better go out spend it like a good consumer because we're going to ensure its value is going to slowly erode over time. Modern man already needs to buy and sell things to survive. It's not clear to me why his currency needs to further promote this behavior.
- bryananderson 9y ago
  Yes, that’s exactly what it is, but with one crucial additional factor: investment. Mild inflation does not discourage saving, it discourages saving the actual currency, which does nothing for the economy. It encourages saving in the form of investment, which stimulates the economy. If my dollars were guaranteed to get more and more valuable over time, why would I spend them (more than absolutely necessary) or invest them in economic ventures? This is why deflationary currency is bad.
  - snikeris 9y ago
    It might be bad for the economy/GDP but what about for the individual? Consider a blue collar worker just making enough to get by and saving a little cash on the side. Why are you forcing this person to learn about inflation, interest rates, the SP500, etc.
    - bryananderson 9y ago
      If they are saving a little bit on the side for the short term, inflation will not noticeably hurt them (I am speaking of a well-managed monetary system with mild inflation such as the US). If they want to save for the long term, then they should invest it if they want to maximize gains. That’s what’s best for the individual.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
coralreef 9y ago
People will hold whatever they believe will appreciate in value. I would argue that the more people hold, the better. It is taking power from centralized government fiat and injecting it into crypto, even if for brief periods of time. Sounds counter-intuitive but a society throwing their life savings into crypto is actually a good thing. Letting the early adopters get rich is probably a net benefit if it attracts widespread attention and adoption, which is what crypto needs to become a day to day currency.

by akerro 9y ago

oh_sigh 9y ago

I agree with you somewhat, but before we even care about HODLing, BTC needs to get fees and transaction confirmation times way down for it to be used as a currency. Right now, it can take 10 minutes and $20 to transfer any amount of money on the BTC network. That isn't reasonable to buy a hamburger.

akerro 9y ago
BTC is old and deprecated. BTC is now what ARPANET is to the Internet. Without LN and SegWit BTC will suffer long transaction time and high fees before it dies. We all know it, yet, somehow no one cares.

spraak 9y ago

That's very true, but a huge percentage of people recently in the cryptocurrency space are only there to make money. Not many truly care about the technology.

0xdeadbeefbabe 9y ago
But they make money when they stop holding; otherwise it's just a number.
- spraak 9y ago
  There are many practices like that, though. E.g. you go for a run and then rest. The run still benefits you, just as holding crypto let's it increase in value. But you eventually stop running to rest, and in the same way, cash out your hold.

seanalltogether 9y ago

Maybe it's time we stop calling these cryptocurrencies and call them what they really are, cryptostocks.

gruez 9y ago
they're not stocks because stocks gives you equity in a company. there's no bitcoin, inc or ethereum, inc.
- snikeris 9y ago
  They also don't pay dividends.
- coralreef 9y ago
  To be technical, some tokens are offering "dividends" these days, ex. sharing trading profits of a blockchain decentralized exchange. But I guess these tokens don't strictly represent a cryptocurrency, maybe a single cryptoasset more so. But those tokens could be traded like a currency...so it gets kind of confusing.

snikeris 9y ago

> Deflating currencies act as value holders, not as currencies, they don't promote trading or commerce, buying and selling it for physical things. I know this is the commonly accepted reason why inflation is good and deflation is bad. But isn't this just coercion? Here's your paycheck. You better go out spend it like a good consumer because we're going to ensure its value is going to slowly erode over time. Modern man already needs to buy and sell things to survive. It's not clear to me why his currency needs to further promote this behavior.

bryananderson 9y ago
Yes, that’s exactly what it is, but with one crucial additional factor: investment. Mild inflation does not discourage saving, it discourages saving the actual currency, which does nothing for the economy. It encourages saving in the form of investment, which stimulates the economy. If my dollars were guaranteed to get more and more valuable over time, why would I spend them (more than absolutely necessary) or invest them in economic ventures? This is why deflationary currency is bad.
- snikeris 9y ago
  It might be bad for the economy/GDP but what about for the individual? Consider a blue collar worker just making enough to get by and saving a little cash on the side. Why are you forcing this person to learn about inflation, interest rates, the SP500, etc.
  - bryananderson 9y ago
    If they are saving a little bit on the side for the short term, inflation will not noticeably hurt them (I am speaking of a well-managed monetary system with mild inflation such as the US). If they want to save for the long term, then they should invest it if they want to maximize gains. That’s what’s best for the individual.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]

coralreef 9y ago

People will hold whatever they believe will appreciate in value. I would argue that the more people hold, the better. It is taking power from centralized government fiat and injecting it into crypto, even if for brief periods of time. Sounds counter-intuitive but a society throwing their life savings into crypto is actually a good thing. Letting the early adopters get rich is probably a net benefit if it attracts widespread attention and adoption, which is what crypto needs to become a day to day currency.