5 ms·

Inmates can no longer receive book donations. They have to buy them

63 points by wowsig 9y ago

neaden 9y ago
"When there were five vendors, 77 books were available for purchase and 24 of the titles were coloring books." They've added a sixth vendor, but it doesn't say how many titles are available now. I think this is truly shameful. I can't think of any good reason to deny inmates books with a few exceptions. Much like increased costs to make phone calls or replacing in person visits with expensive video-conferencing technology this is just another way to extract some money from prisons.
- Fej 9y ago
  I thought the same until I saw that this is being done by the state. Perhaps it is simply laziness. It's far easier to have a whitelist than a blacklist.
  - zbyte64 9y ago
    Seriously! At least a for-profit prison would be sure to at least maximally charge the inmate for the privilege.
    - StanislavPetrov 9y ago
      This move is clearly about profits. The money being drained from these prisoners and their families goes to for-profit corporations. Have no doubt that those making the decision to implement this scheme are making profits, both directly and indirectly (Governor Cuomo among others). Kickbacks, campaign contributions, and payoffs (both now and in the future) are just a few of the ways. That's how business is done in New York (and elsewhere, but especially New York). https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/04/nyregion/corruption-trials-albany-silver-skelos.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/04/nyregion/corruption-trial...
  - gozur88 9y ago
    Laziness and CYA. Nobody wants to be the guy who didn't realize there was a useful section for making weapons, poisons, weakening bars, etc in a book he green-lighted.
- skissane 9y ago
  I wonder if this could violate RLUIPA [1], at least with respect to religious books. An inmate's personal religious practice may include reading books about their religion. The selection of religious books available from these vendors is likely very small if not non-existent. This is especially the case if the inmate follows a minority religion. (And, reading books about one's religion, as a religious practice, can't be limited to just reading one's religion's scriptures.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Land_Use_and_Institutionalized_Persons_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Land_Use_and_Institu...
horatiocain 9y ago
this is a boring dystopia for us, but two layers of it for the inmates
gumby 9y ago
What is the purpose of prisons? If it is penitence and rehabilitation, this makes no sense. If it simply to incarcerate people for a while to make their lives difficult and make them not want to reoffend, this makes the wardens’ and guards’ life more difficult. I suppose if the objective is to demonstrate righteous wrath and judgement then this is a good idea. However such demonstration is not likely to make society safer.
- travmatt 9y ago
  Cheap labor?
  - gumby 9y ago
    It does appear that was part of the development of Parchman, Angola and the like. However the cost of the prison-industrial complex dwarfs the economic value of a prisoner's labor. There are other funds to be extracted of course, including exorbitant phone calls, "snack kits" and the like but that money goes to private corporations, not to the state (and to the kind of political donations that lead to the "three strikes" laws in California).
    - travmatt 9y ago
      Your analysis makes sense but I think it’s too simplistic. Specifically, I think the economic costs are borne by the taxpayers as opposed to people planning prisons, and rather obliquely at that. I’m not sure a prison is motivated to be fiscally prudent above and beyond what’s required to stay within their operating budgets, whereas a private corporation would have that incentive. I’m envisioning someonething like the military, where the pain of wasteful spending is quite disconnected from the people making the decision.
      - gumby 9y ago
        I was not clear: I agree with you. Selling off the prisoner's labor is a minor source of income for the private prison operators (basically bonus revenue); most of their revenue indeed comes from the state. I don't believe incarceration for labor is much of an arrest motivator any more. I think the primary motivation in the US is some sort of punitive cruelty. Historically the point of incarceration has changed with fashion (and technology of course).
dragonwriter 9y ago
“At three New York prisons” is critically omitted (not by HN, it's a defect in the source headline.)
StanislavPetrov 9y ago
>Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s office has made the point that inmates still have access to prison libraries, but some say it’s not enough. Sickening that the state is gouging people (and families) least able to afford it or contest the action. Not surprising it comes from the most corrupt governor (Cuomo) in the most corrupt state (New York) in the country. This is a governor who literally disbanded his own commission to investigate corruption when it started investigating his own corruption https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/23/nyregion/governor-andrew-cuomo-and-the-short-life-of-the-moreland-commission.html?_r=0 https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/23/nyregion/governor-andrew-... Nobody should have any doubt that Cuomo and/or his political allies are getting lucrative kickbacks from the small group of for-profit corporations that stand to benefit from this despicable act.
jopsen 9y ago
Trump might be in office, but how is America going to get any better if blue states like New York and California can not even run a decent prison system?
Molaxx 9y ago
This is wrong. So wrong , money really blinds. The idea of for profit prisons is an abomination, giving incentives for increasing the amount of incarcerated people is crazy and sad. It is also asking for corruption.

63 points by wowsig 9y ago

"When there were five vendors, 77 books were available for purchase and 24 of the titles were coloring books." They've added a sixth vendor, but it doesn't say how many titles are available now. I think this is truly shameful. I can't think of any good reason to deny inmates books with a few exceptions. Much like increased costs to make phone calls or replacing in person visits with expensive video-conferencing technology this is just another way to extract some money from prisons.

Fej 9y ago
I thought the same until I saw that this is being done by the state. Perhaps it is simply laziness. It's far easier to have a whitelist than a blacklist.
- zbyte64 9y ago
  Seriously! At least a for-profit prison would be sure to at least maximally charge the inmate for the privilege.
  - StanislavPetrov 9y ago
    This move is clearly about profits. The money being drained from these prisoners and their families goes to for-profit corporations. Have no doubt that those making the decision to implement this scheme are making profits, both directly and indirectly (Governor Cuomo among others). Kickbacks, campaign contributions, and payoffs (both now and in the future) are just a few of the ways. That's how business is done in New York (and elsewhere, but especially New York). https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/04/nyregion/corruption-trials-albany-silver-skelos.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/04/nyregion/corruption-trial...
- gozur88 9y ago
  Laziness and CYA. Nobody wants to be the guy who didn't realize there was a useful section for making weapons, poisons, weakening bars, etc in a book he green-lighted.
skissane 9y ago
I wonder if this could violate RLUIPA [1], at least with respect to religious books. An inmate's personal religious practice may include reading books about their religion. The selection of religious books available from these vendors is likely very small if not non-existent. This is especially the case if the inmate follows a minority religion. (And, reading books about one's religion, as a religious practice, can't be limited to just reading one's religion's scriptures.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Land_Use_and_Institutionalized_Persons_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Land_Use_and_Institu...

horatiocain 9y ago

this is a boring dystopia for us, but two layers of it for the inmates

gumby 9y ago

What is the purpose of prisons? If it is penitence and rehabilitation, this makes no sense. If it simply to incarcerate people for a while to make their lives difficult and make them not want to reoffend, this makes the wardens’ and guards’ life more difficult. I suppose if the objective is to demonstrate righteous wrath and judgement then this is a good idea. However such demonstration is not likely to make society safer.

travmatt 9y ago
Cheap labor?
- gumby 9y ago
  It does appear that was part of the development of Parchman, Angola and the like. However the cost of the prison-industrial complex dwarfs the economic value of a prisoner's labor. There are other funds to be extracted of course, including exorbitant phone calls, "snack kits" and the like but that money goes to private corporations, not to the state (and to the kind of political donations that lead to the "three strikes" laws in California).
  - travmatt 9y ago
    Your analysis makes sense but I think it’s too simplistic. Specifically, I think the economic costs are borne by the taxpayers as opposed to people planning prisons, and rather obliquely at that. I’m not sure a prison is motivated to be fiscally prudent above and beyond what’s required to stay within their operating budgets, whereas a private corporation would have that incentive. I’m envisioning someonething like the military, where the pain of wasteful spending is quite disconnected from the people making the decision.
    - gumby 9y ago
      I was not clear: I agree with you. Selling off the prisoner's labor is a minor source of income for the private prison operators (basically bonus revenue); most of their revenue indeed comes from the state. I don't believe incarceration for labor is much of an arrest motivator any more. I think the primary motivation in the US is some sort of punitive cruelty. Historically the point of incarceration has changed with fashion (and technology of course).

dragonwriter 9y ago

“At three New York prisons” is critically omitted (not by HN, it's a defect in the source headline.)

StanislavPetrov 9y ago

>Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s office has made the point that inmates still have access to prison libraries, but some say it’s not enough. Sickening that the state is gouging people (and families) least able to afford it or contest the action. Not surprising it comes from the most corrupt governor (Cuomo) in the most corrupt state (New York) in the country. This is a governor who literally disbanded his own commission to investigate corruption when it started investigating his own corruption https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/23/nyregion/governor-andrew-cuomo-and-the-short-life-of-the-moreland-commission.html?_r=0 https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/23/nyregion/governor-andrew-... Nobody should have any doubt that Cuomo and/or his political allies are getting lucrative kickbacks from the small group of for-profit corporations that stand to benefit from this despicable act.

jopsen 9y ago

Trump might be in office, but how is America going to get any better if blue states like New York and California can not even run a decent prison system?

Molaxx 9y ago

This is wrong. So wrong , money really blinds. The idea of for profit prisons is an abomination, giving incentives for increasing the amount of incarcerated people is crazy and sad. It is also asking for corruption.