4 ms·

I was trying to think of a way to say this. Underperforming schools are in underperforming areas with underperforming households with underperforming parents.

I was trying to think of a way to say this. Underperforming schools are in underperforming areas with underperforming households with underperforming parents. It's obvious to everyone what the problem is, yet we're not able to discuss it.

millermp12 9y ago
Some groups being more equal than others?
omegaworks 9y ago
> It's obvious to everyone what the problem is, yet we're not able to discuss it. Please, let us know what you think the problem is. Why hide behind an implication?
- Helmet 9y ago
  I can't speak for him, but I don't think there is any sort of hidden implication. As for the problem? Well, the 72% illegitimacy rate among African-Americans is an absolute social disaster (1). No amount of school funding or social welfare programs can fix an economic problem of that scope. And yes, I believe that this is a cultural problem. What is the solution? I don't know, but I'm open to debating, engaging, and supporting policy that will help. (1) https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_05.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_05.pdf
  - southphillyman 9y ago
    Check the historical data on this. In 1950 the % of unmarried black women was only 30%..... You can see a flip occur around 1980 which would coincide with the beginning of the crack era, the failing war on drugs, and mass incarceration. https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/families/marital.html https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/families...
    - Helmet 9y ago
      Your conclusion isn't supported by your own data. The "flip" doesn't occur around 1980, it occurs in the 1970's (feel free to download the excel sheet and examine it yourself, as I did) and it's a trend that follows ALL races, yet the crack era was largely an African-American epidemic. There was, however, a major social movement in the 60's that encouraged free love, sexual liberation, women's rights, and an explosion of contraceptives. I think this is a stronger explanatory argument, one also made by the Brookings Institution: https://www.brookings.edu/research/an-analysis-of-out-of-wedlock-births-in-the-united-states/ https://www.brookings.edu/research/an-analysis-of-out-of-wed...
      - omegaworks 9y ago
        In our pursuit of a fully-employed society (maximizing the size of the labor pool for optimum capital efficiency), we've neglected to factor in the time + effort + wealth it takes to maintain the traditional family structure. When you don't have access to that wealth* and society takes an active role in eroding its explicit social safety net (welfare), the implicit communal safety net (redlining, divestment), and individual liberties (mass incarceration, the crack vs cocaine sentencing disparities), you can see what results. What you're falsely ascribing to sexual liberation I'm ascribing to the real, tangible effects of capitalism and a society that values black life less. * http://www.post-gazette.com/business/businessnews/2010/03/09/Study-finds-median-wealth-for-single-black-women-at-5/stories/201003090163 http://www.post-gazette.com/business/businessnews/2010/03/09...
        dragonwriter 9y ago
        > In our pursuit of a fully-employed society (maximizing the size of the labor pool for optimum capital efficiency), we've neglected to factor in the time + effort + wealth it takes to maintain the traditional family structure. That reminds me of something I've heard before. Oh, right... “The bourgeois claptrap about the family and education, about the hallowed correlation of parents and child, becomes all the more disgusting, the more, by the action of Modern Industry, all the family ties among the proletarians are torn asunder, and their children transformed into simple articles of commerce and instruments of labour.” — Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, Manifesto of the Communist Party
- oceanghost 9y ago
  Schools are the front lines for societal problems. Teachers can't fix those, and yet we blame them for the consequences of problems we as a society cant address.

millermp12 9y ago

Some groups being more equal than others?

omegaworks 9y ago

> It's obvious to everyone what the problem is, yet we're not able to discuss it. Please, let us know what you think the problem is. Why hide behind an implication?

Helmet 9y ago
I can't speak for him, but I don't think there is any sort of hidden implication. As for the problem? Well, the 72% illegitimacy rate among African-Americans is an absolute social disaster (1). No amount of school funding or social welfare programs can fix an economic problem of that scope. And yes, I believe that this is a cultural problem. What is the solution? I don't know, but I'm open to debating, engaging, and supporting policy that will help. (1) https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_05.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_05.pdf
- southphillyman 9y ago
  Check the historical data on this. In 1950 the % of unmarried black women was only 30%..... You can see a flip occur around 1980 which would coincide with the beginning of the crack era, the failing war on drugs, and mass incarceration. https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/families/marital.html https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/families...
  - Helmet 9y ago
    Your conclusion isn't supported by your own data. The "flip" doesn't occur around 1980, it occurs in the 1970's (feel free to download the excel sheet and examine it yourself, as I did) and it's a trend that follows ALL races, yet the crack era was largely an African-American epidemic. There was, however, a major social movement in the 60's that encouraged free love, sexual liberation, women's rights, and an explosion of contraceptives. I think this is a stronger explanatory argument, one also made by the Brookings Institution: https://www.brookings.edu/research/an-analysis-of-out-of-wedlock-births-in-the-united-states/ https://www.brookings.edu/research/an-analysis-of-out-of-wed...
    - omegaworks 9y ago
      In our pursuit of a fully-employed society (maximizing the size of the labor pool for optimum capital efficiency), we've neglected to factor in the time + effort + wealth it takes to maintain the traditional family structure. When you don't have access to that wealth* and society takes an active role in eroding its explicit social safety net (welfare), the implicit communal safety net (redlining, divestment), and individual liberties (mass incarceration, the crack vs cocaine sentencing disparities), you can see what results. What you're falsely ascribing to sexual liberation I'm ascribing to the real, tangible effects of capitalism and a society that values black life less. * http://www.post-gazette.com/business/businessnews/2010/03/09/Study-finds-median-wealth-for-single-black-women-at-5/stories/201003090163 http://www.post-gazette.com/business/businessnews/2010/03/09...
      - dragonwriter 9y ago
        > In our pursuit of a fully-employed society (maximizing the size of the labor pool for optimum capital efficiency), we've neglected to factor in the time + effort + wealth it takes to maintain the traditional family structure. That reminds me of something I've heard before. Oh, right... “The bourgeois claptrap about the family and education, about the hallowed correlation of parents and child, becomes all the more disgusting, the more, by the action of Modern Industry, all the family ties among the proletarians are torn asunder, and their children transformed into simple articles of commerce and instruments of labour.” — Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, Manifesto of the Communist Party
oceanghost 9y ago
Schools are the front lines for societal problems. Teachers can't fix those, and yet we blame them for the consequences of problems we as a society cant address.