5 ms·
That problem isn't a result of the 10 minute blocks. A 0-confirmation transaction normally is just fine. These are available on Bitcoin Cash.
by ericb 9y ago
That problem isn't a result of the 10 minute blocks. A 0-confirmation transaction normally is just fine. These are available on Bitcoin Cash.
- jdc0589 9y agoI honestly don't know a ton about cryptocurrencies, but I though confirmed transactions were.....more or less whole point? can you give me an ELI5 version of why 0-confirmation transactions are ok?
- ericb 9y agoIt depends on the use-case. If you look at credit card transactions, they are only "confirmed" after 120 days (when chargebacks become harder...not impossible). A 0-conf transaction will work for all scenarios where you would trust a credit card with about the same amount of certainty. For those other scenarios, 10 minutes is better.
- Isomatik 9y agoI think it's really only comparable for online transactions, where all credit card transactions are Card Not Present and you aren't able to 100% guarantee that the delivery went to the correct person or that the card wasn't stolen, making fighting the chargeback sometimes not worth it. A brick and mortar doing swipe transactions should have everything they need to effectively fight chargebacks, so I wouldn't consider that money to be 'gone' the way it would be in a double-spend.
- Obi_Juan_Kenobi 9y agoFor small transactions, it's often a tolerable risk. You amortize any losses to double-spends and compare that to e.g CC fees. For larger amounts, you want confirmations, but then it's generally alright to wait a little while for confirmation, too. Note that replace-by-fee means this only works with Bitcoin Cash.
- grey-area 9y agoA 0-confirmation transaction normally is just fine. It's really not fine at all. The competition is full confirmation transactions on a debit card or bank account in seconds with much lower or zero fees.
- seanp2k2 9y ago>seconds At PoS systems in the US, it's typical to have to wait 30+ seconds for chip cards to go through. I'm guessing that this has more to do with the PoS system / slow internet connection for the store / slow network on the back-end card network, but cryptocurrencies would need to be sub-minute to be ~acceptable for in-person retail transactions. Until that is solved, until cryptocoins are more than speculative securities where the value is only the current market price on a handful of exchanges, and until you can use them to realistically buy and sell things instead of using cash or a credit card, I don't consider them a "real" currency (by my own definition). I DO hope that it gets there some day, but I don't see that happening for at least another 5 years, likely with quite a few people who put a significant amount of money into it getting burned quite badly.
- bootlooped 9y agoI have absolutely never had to wait 30+ seconds for a credit card transaction that used the chip, so I don't agree with your assessment of that amount of time being typical. Generally, for me, I think it takes about 3-5 seconds from the time I confirm the dollar amount to the time the confirmation comes back.
- dlubarov 9y ago30s isn't really typical; the average is in the ballpark of 10s. When I worked at Square we got our average down to 4.2s [1]. Modern Verifone terminals seem pretty quick as well. Long term, "instant" contactless will probably become the norm (though it's taking hold very slowly in the US). [1] https://squareup.com/townsquare/weve-chipped-away-at-emv-transaction-speed-and-were-not-done https://squareup.com/townsquare/weve-chipped-away-at-emv-tra...
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- sf_rob 9y ago0-conf isn't fine in many trustless scenarios with Bitcoin because of Replace By Fee.
- ericb 9y agoAgreed, but Bitcoin Cash intentionally has not added Replace By Fee for this reason.