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A long time ago I came across this question [1] (probably through Hackernews): "What do you believe is true even though you cannot prove it." I found the questi
by hencq 9y ago
A long time ago I came across this question [1] (probably through Hackernews): "What do you believe is true even though you cannot prove it." I found the question hugely fascinating. For me one answer is that some attributes which we think of as uniquely human, such as intelligence or consciousness, aren't actually so unique. I believe at least many mammals and possibly other animals (birds? some fish?) have some form of (perhaps basic) intelligence.
Of course there is always a big risk in anthropomorphizing behavior and there are huge challenges in designing replicable experiments. However, ultimately humans are just apes so it shouldn't be too surprising if some of our human attributes actually evolved much earlier. In any case I find research like that mentioned in the article immensely interesting. There is still so much we can learn on this front.
[1] https://www.edge.org/annual-question/what-do-you-believe-is-true-even-though-you-cannot-prove-it https://www.edge.org/annual-question/what-do-you-believe-is-...
- jacquesm 9y agoHumans are pretty good at pretending other humans aren't human, it should be no surprise that we find it easy to ignore traits that we consider human in other species.
- andai 9y agoSavage
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 9y agoYou can go deeper than this. Attempt to define "intelligence" in any philosophically meaningful way and you might find that it isn't clear that a coffee table isn't intelligent on some level, or alternatively that a human being isn't just a sufficiently complicated coffee table. "Consciousness", in the philosophical meaning, is even more interesting because it is entirely non-empirical; it can't be measured in any objective sense. Any deeper implications of this are left as an exercise for the reader.
- allenz 9y agoI don't think that there is any philosophical difficulty in distinguishing an animal from a coffee table. Intelligence is a broad concept which can be defined or measured in several ways. One definition is the ability to act upon the environment to achieve one's goals. In contrast, there is an epistemic problem about whether other minds exist: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/other-minds/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/other-minds/
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 9y ago> the ability to act upon the environment to achieve one's goals. Prove that the animal has a concept of goals and is not simply a complex arrangement of reactions environmental conditions, like a coffee table moving when you bump into it.
- sinemetu11 9y agoI think what you're asking about is Efference copy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efference_copy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efference_copy Other animals do this. They perceive their own movements as different from an others.
- naasking 9y agoGoals are a complex arrangement of environmental conditions. But not all such conditions are equal. It's perfectly sensible to classify arrangements of matter that have self-awareness and learning behaviour as distinct from those that do not exhibit such behaviours.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 9y agoWe have computers that demonstrate such behavior, but few would refer to them as intelligent or grant them higher moral worth than even animals.
- mannykannot 9y ago
- sinemetu11 9y ago> some attributes which we think of as uniquely human, such as intelligence or consciousness, aren't actually so unique If you find this topic interesting I'd highly suggest reading the book Other Minds [1] and maybe Being a Beast [2]. Apparently there was a Y fork millions of years ago in the tree of life where vertebrates and invertebrates split. It's interesting that both branches developed advanced nervous systems, specifically octopi and mammals. What's the purpose of an octopus having the highest brain to body mass of any invertebrate? Especially when they live ~2 years. Also, 2/3 of their neurons are found in its arms. Imagine thinking with your arms or seeing with your skin - they have photoreceptors in their skin and are able to match their environment yet they're color blind. [1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28116739-other-minds https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28116739-other-minds [2] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28696605-being-a-beast https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28696605-being-a-beast
- hencq 9y agoHa, I did read Other Minds! You're right, it's absolutely fascinating. The book makes an interesting point how interacting with cephalopods are probably the closest thing we have to interacting with an alien intelligence. I'm adding Being a Beast to my reading list too.
- danilocesar 9y agoThanks for making me spend more money on books... :)
- gerbilly 9y ago> What do you believe is true even though you cannot prove it. I suspect, but cannot prove, that the brain is necessary for consciousness but not sufficient. Sort of like a handheld radio is necessary for hearing radio broadcasts, but not sufficient, it needs to tune into a signal originating elsewhere.
- msiyer 9y agoSome questions that have always bothered me: Do mentally sick people have "consciousness"? What happens to "consciousness" during episodes of extreme rage\trance\trauma? Sometimes, I think that we are simply machines collecting data for someone. A other times, I feel there is a higher purpose.
- vadimberman 9y agoI believe that many animals have forms of communication close to what we call language - an infinitely productive communication system with displacement and abstraction. Many animals are capable of working in large groups. To coordinate the actions, efficient and rich communication is required. On the other hand, with billions of years of evolution yielding advances in locomotion, speed, protection from the environment, it seems improbable that the communication will not develop as much and go sharply from nearly zero to one in a blink of an eye with the great apes.