4 ms·

>Programmers, unlike many other professions, are in the happy position that their skills are in high demand. They can afford to have more moral fiber, because i

>Programmers, unlike many other professions, are in the happy position that their skills are in high demand. They can afford to have more moral fiber, because it's easier for them to find a new job. What about all those high-powered MBAs and other finance types? Most anyone who's received an Ivy League education is going to be in demand. Yet would we really expect more ethical behavior from them? Some would say we would expect worse. Programmers are no different from any other worker. >I'd also assume that a lawsuit in case they were fired for refusing to write software which the purpose to break the law would go pretty well, but I'm not a lawyer. Yes but if you filed that lawsuit you wouldn't exactly be 'in high demand' anymore, would you?

Retric 9y ago
Actually, there is a vast surplus of MBA's. An MBA largely has value because it acts like a cult promoting the networking between MBA's. It's arguably a great hack to extract value from organizations as opposed to customers.
- frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
  By 'high-powered' I mean to say top 5 or 10 program graduates.
  - Retric 9y ago
    You are still talking about ~5,000 new MBA's from 'top' US schools per year even trying to be that exclusive. Over 20 years that's ~100,000 people which does not seem insane, but you can still be very selective while drawing from that pool. Sure, they tend have high earnings, but this is the same pool that both want to and could get into a 'top' school which is a rather biased sample.
    - frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
      Sure but that's not really related to what I'm talking about. A top 5 MBA obviously possesses an extremely high capability to find alternative employment if they quit their current job (for ethical or other reasons.) Yet we would never expect those graduates to be more ethical than the average low-demand worker. What you're saying seems akin to saying that a Stanford MBA is in less demand than the average programmer. (1) I think that's wrong. (2) It's really avoiding the point which his that being in demand doesn't really imply that those individuals will act more ethically.
      - Retric 9y ago
        One way of measuring demand is to look at how long the average job search lasts. In that context Stanford MBA's often take a rather long time between jobs as in 12-18 months is not uncommon. Various euphemisms exist, like taking a break or the ever popular consulting. But, getting a job in school or being poached while employed is the happy path. Get off that path and it can be very hard to get back. PS: I don't think demand changes the average much, but it's often outliers that stand up in the first place. So, I do think demand is meaningful as it reduces the burden of ethical behavior which impacts people at the edge.
- slantyyz 9y ago
  >> An MBA largely has value because it acts like a cult promoting the networking between MBA's. It's arguably a great hack to extract value from organizations as opposed to customers. I don't think this applies to the average MBA (full disclosure, I have an MBA). Most MBAs are just normal people who are just trying to do their job better. Having said that, I guess some grads of the "most elite" business schools do that cultish thing you're talking about, but I would argue it has less to do with having an MBA than being a member of that top school. Those people tend to be the most visible representatives of MBAs while only being a very small portion of all people with MBAs.

Retric 9y ago

Actually, there is a vast surplus of MBA's. An MBA largely has value because it acts like a cult promoting the networking between MBA's. It's arguably a great hack to extract value from organizations as opposed to customers.

frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
By 'high-powered' I mean to say top 5 or 10 program graduates.
- Retric 9y ago
  You are still talking about ~5,000 new MBA's from 'top' US schools per year even trying to be that exclusive. Over 20 years that's ~100,000 people which does not seem insane, but you can still be very selective while drawing from that pool. Sure, they tend have high earnings, but this is the same pool that both want to and could get into a 'top' school which is a rather biased sample.
  - frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
    Sure but that's not really related to what I'm talking about. A top 5 MBA obviously possesses an extremely high capability to find alternative employment if they quit their current job (for ethical or other reasons.) Yet we would never expect those graduates to be more ethical than the average low-demand worker. What you're saying seems akin to saying that a Stanford MBA is in less demand than the average programmer. (1) I think that's wrong. (2) It's really avoiding the point which his that being in demand doesn't really imply that those individuals will act more ethically.
    - Retric 9y ago
      One way of measuring demand is to look at how long the average job search lasts. In that context Stanford MBA's often take a rather long time between jobs as in 12-18 months is not uncommon. Various euphemisms exist, like taking a break or the ever popular consulting. But, getting a job in school or being poached while employed is the happy path. Get off that path and it can be very hard to get back. PS: I don't think demand changes the average much, but it's often outliers that stand up in the first place. So, I do think demand is meaningful as it reduces the burden of ethical behavior which impacts people at the edge.
slantyyz 9y ago
>> An MBA largely has value because it acts like a cult promoting the networking between MBA's. It's arguably a great hack to extract value from organizations as opposed to customers. I don't think this applies to the average MBA (full disclosure, I have an MBA). Most MBAs are just normal people who are just trying to do their job better. Having said that, I guess some grads of the "most elite" business schools do that cultish thing you're talking about, but I would argue it has less to do with having an MBA than being a member of that top school. Those people tend to be the most visible representatives of MBAs while only being a very small portion of all people with MBAs.