4 ms·

The UK govt spends a lot of its time rubber stamping EU legislation, which is largely corporatist, not individualist. I don't have time to give this reply the

by marrs 9y ago

The UK govt spends a lot of its time rubber stamping EU legislation, which is largely corporatist, not individualist. I don't have time to give this reply the attention it deserves, but consider that it is now illegal to sell your home made jam in your local charity shop, and it was almost made illegal to tinker with your own motor vehicle. Then there's the never ending torrent of health and safety legislation. These things aren't intended to destroy individual sovereignty, but that's what they end up doing. Perhaps this sort of thing matters more to the British than other nationals. An Englishman's home is his castle, as they saying goes.

pjc50 9y ago
> EU legislation, which is largely corporatist, not individualist What does that actually mean? > now illegal to sell your home made jam in your local charity shop I googled for this, and the only reference I could find was Mail and Express articles, so I suspect it's not true. The EU fake British news debunking site has this to say: http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/in-a-jam-over-non-existent-eu-rules/ http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/in-a-jam-over-non-existe...
- marrs 9y ago
  What does that actually mean? It means that most of the laws that are passed by the EU are done so at the behest of big industry. All laws are proposed by the unelected EU commission, and they are lobbied heavily by the industries. High tariffs on imported food are intended to protect the farming industry. Laws banning DIY are intended to protect the trades. Laws promoting green energy (read: noxious diesel gases) are designed to provide a ready market for German car manufacturers. If you're British then you'll know about HS2, the high speed rail network nobody wants and many are protesting against. Everyone seems to agree that it will be a waste of money but the govt are determined to go ahead with it anyway. Presuming this has nothing to do with TEN-R [1], which I doubt, you would think that the British govt might want to spend British tax-payers' money on British workers to build the trains, to help the economy and stuff, right? Well maybe they do, but they are required by law to put the tender out to the whole of the EU, so British companies actually make up the minority of bidders for the contract [2]. I googled for this, and the only reference I could find was Mail and Express articles, so I suspect it's not true. It is true. A friend of mine manages a charity shop and makes homemade jam, which she used to sell at the counter. She was forced to stop selling it after the legislation came in. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-European_high-speed_rail_network https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-European_high-speed_rail... [2] https://www.gov.uk/government/news/hs2-reveals-bidders-in-race-for-275-billion-trains-contract https://www.gov.uk/government/news/hs2-reveals-bidders-in-ra...
tpm 9y ago
It's not illegal to 'sell your home made jam in your local charity shop' in many EU countries, so if it is in UK it has either nothing to do with the EU or is a rule misinterpreted by local legislation (which happens quite often). "EU legislation, which is largely corporatist, not individualist" sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. But UK also wants to leave the jurisdiction of ECHR which is a very corporatist move.
- marrs 9y ago
  I think you mean the ECJ. But either way, European courts aren't popular in the UK because they are able to override British law. Seems reasonable that the country that invented the concept of human rights might want to retain her jurisprudence. As for the homemade jam, see above.
  - tpm 9y ago
    Both ECJ and ECHR, but Theresa May has been fighting a long war against the ECHR: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-campaign-leave-european-convention-on-human-rights-2020-general-election-brexit-a7499951.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-ca... And given that many times ECHR was the court that sided with individuals against either corporations or states, it's really hard to frame this as supporting individual freedom. Yes, European courts are able to override British courts and British law, because the UK agreed to that. That's the mysterious element of UK's relation to anything European: the UK agrees to some rules and then complains about the consequences. As for homemade jam: - what laws banning DIY? Are they UK laws? Are you sure it's the EU who mandated the precise letter of the law? - Yes, the British have the HS2 to tender out to the whole EU (which it is still a part of you know), because that is actually a way to save money and decrease local connections between builders and politicians, also known as corruption. These are rules the UK has agreed to. But they don't have to build an inch of HS2 against their will, as the HS2 is not financed by Brussels and therefore they don't have the say. - laws promoting 'green' energy are a mixed bag, I agree with that. But they are getting better, Euro 6 for example has hit diesel car manufacturers hard. And not everything is about cars.

by marrs 9y ago

pjc50 9y ago

> EU legislation, which is largely corporatist, not individualist What does that actually mean? > now illegal to sell your home made jam in your local charity shop I googled for this, and the only reference I could find was Mail and Express articles, so I suspect it's not true. The EU fake British news debunking site has this to say: http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/in-a-jam-over-non-existent-eu-rules/ http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/in-a-jam-over-non-existe...

marrs 9y ago
What does that actually mean? It means that most of the laws that are passed by the EU are done so at the behest of big industry. All laws are proposed by the unelected EU commission, and they are lobbied heavily by the industries. High tariffs on imported food are intended to protect the farming industry. Laws banning DIY are intended to protect the trades. Laws promoting green energy (read: noxious diesel gases) are designed to provide a ready market for German car manufacturers. If you're British then you'll know about HS2, the high speed rail network nobody wants and many are protesting against. Everyone seems to agree that it will be a waste of money but the govt are determined to go ahead with it anyway. Presuming this has nothing to do with TEN-R [1], which I doubt, you would think that the British govt might want to spend British tax-payers' money on British workers to build the trains, to help the economy and stuff, right? Well maybe they do, but they are required by law to put the tender out to the whole of the EU, so British companies actually make up the minority of bidders for the contract [2]. I googled for this, and the only reference I could find was Mail and Express articles, so I suspect it's not true. It is true. A friend of mine manages a charity shop and makes homemade jam, which she used to sell at the counter. She was forced to stop selling it after the legislation came in. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-European_high-speed_rail_network https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-European_high-speed_rail... [2] https://www.gov.uk/government/news/hs2-reveals-bidders-in-race-for-275-billion-trains-contract https://www.gov.uk/government/news/hs2-reveals-bidders-in-ra...

tpm 9y ago

It's not illegal to 'sell your home made jam in your local charity shop' in many EU countries, so if it is in UK it has either nothing to do with the EU or is a rule misinterpreted by local legislation (which happens quite often). "EU legislation, which is largely corporatist, not individualist" sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. But UK also wants to leave the jurisdiction of ECHR which is a very corporatist move.

marrs 9y ago
I think you mean the ECJ. But either way, European courts aren't popular in the UK because they are able to override British law. Seems reasonable that the country that invented the concept of human rights might want to retain her jurisprudence. As for the homemade jam, see above.
- tpm 9y ago
  Both ECJ and ECHR, but Theresa May has been fighting a long war against the ECHR: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-campaign-leave-european-convention-on-human-rights-2020-general-election-brexit-a7499951.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-ca... And given that many times ECHR was the court that sided with individuals against either corporations or states, it's really hard to frame this as supporting individual freedom. Yes, European courts are able to override British courts and British law, because the UK agreed to that. That's the mysterious element of UK's relation to anything European: the UK agrees to some rules and then complains about the consequences. As for homemade jam: - what laws banning DIY? Are they UK laws? Are you sure it's the EU who mandated the precise letter of the law? - Yes, the British have the HS2 to tender out to the whole EU (which it is still a part of you know), because that is actually a way to save money and decrease local connections between builders and politicians, also known as corruption. These are rules the UK has agreed to. But they don't have to build an inch of HS2 against their will, as the HS2 is not financed by Brussels and therefore they don't have the say. - laws promoting 'green' energy are a mixed bag, I agree with that. But they are getting better, Euro 6 for example has hit diesel car manufacturers hard. And not everything is about cars.