6 ms·

The problem is you can't have a multiple choice referendum because it would split the leave vote. For example: A. "Hard" Brexit B. "Soft" Brexit C. No Brexit

by kypro 9y ago

The problem is you can't have a multiple choice referendum because it would split the leave vote. For example: A. "Hard" Brexit B. "Soft" Brexit C. No Brexit Brexitors would be somewhat split between A and B, and all remainers would pick C. Can I add some disclaimers to? * Tick here if you are aware there are shortages of doctors and nurses (and other skilled professions) in eastern European countries like Romania because trained professionals tend to come to western Europe to work. This is also true for developing countries. * Tick here if you understand while in the EU the UK has effectively zero control over it's immigration and trade.

pjc50 9y ago
> while in the EU the UK has effectively zero control over it's immigration and trade This isn't true though.
- kypro 9y ago
  Okay, please tell me what restrictions are in place to stop someone from Poland immigrating to the UK? Also, are you suggesting the EU doesn't have open borders?
  - pjc50 9y ago
    The EU requires a right to work and a right to join family. Someone migrating from Poland by themselves without a job is not technically doing so under freedom of movement and the UK is not obliged to let them be a resident. The treaties do contain restriction mechanisms which the UK didn't use: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/richard-bird/immigration-blame-the-uk-_b_13120104.html http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/richard-bird/immigration-bla...
    - kypro 9y ago
      Okay, so basically open borders. But do you honestly believe this is a good immigration system other countries should adopt? And if so why don't you think other countries aren't applying this kind of thing? The fact is this type of immigration policy hurts the poorest and lowest skilled in society. It also means even skilled workers have to compete for jobs when there isn't necessarily any need for their skills.
raverbashing 9y ago
> Tick here if you understand while in the EU the UK has effectively zero control over it's immigration and trade. - "its" not "it's" - the UK retains some control of immigration w.r.t EU citizens (some of which they chose not to enforce and it also allows UK citizens to avail of freedom of movement as well) and full control of the immigration of non-EU citizens, so your assertion is false - Brain drain is debatable, there was never a position for a lot of them in the 1st place (and they might just go somewhere else)
- kypro 9y ago
  > the UK retains some control of immigration w.r.t EU citizens (some of which they chose not to enforce and it also allows UK citizens to avail of freedom of movement as well) and full control of the immigration of non-EU citizens, so your assertion is false As you probably know the control the UK does have over EU citizens is extremely extremely limit. They don't call it "open borders" for no reason believe it or not. > Brain drain is debatable, there was never a position for a lot of them in the 1st place (and they might just go somewhere else) Yeah, well who cares about developing countries as long as the west benefits right? Perhaps we should be focusing on giving them positions in their own countries rather than requiring them to move from their families, friends and culture just for a better life? But morals never play a role in this. It's all about the nations gross-GDP isn't it?
  - ben_w 9y ago
    Schengen area is an open border (+), UK-France is not. UK has the right to eject EU citizens who can’t support themselves, but lacks the beurocracy to identify such people. + and even that has exceptions, I was passport-checked going from Italy into France but not France to Italy, I assume because of the state of emergency from the attack a few years ago.
    - kypro 9y ago
      > Schengen area is an open border (+), UK-France is not. UK has the right to eject EU citizens who can’t support themselves, but lacks the beurocracy to identify such people. I understand this, but then the assumption is that this is a good immigration system. A nation shouldn't let anyone in who can get a job and support themselves. It's an awful immigration system which we have no control over and the majority of the public disagree with. I simply can't understand why some people fail to understand what a disgrace that is. I'll also add that it undermines the UK democracy entirely. People who immigrate to the UK from the EU, or have family who did, vote very differently from native Brits. What's happening is people are coming into the UK, against the the public's wishes (and also without them having any political capacity to stop it) then voting against the UK public's wishes in their elections. > + and even that has exceptions, I was passport-checked going from Italy into France but not France to Italy, I assume because of the state of emergency from the attack a few years ago. It's almost like open borders isn't good for national security. Who'd of thought.

by kypro 9y ago

pjc50 9y ago

> while in the EU the UK has effectively zero control over it's immigration and trade This isn't true though.

kypro 9y ago
Okay, please tell me what restrictions are in place to stop someone from Poland immigrating to the UK? Also, are you suggesting the EU doesn't have open borders?
- pjc50 9y ago
  The EU requires a right to work and a right to join family. Someone migrating from Poland by themselves without a job is not technically doing so under freedom of movement and the UK is not obliged to let them be a resident. The treaties do contain restriction mechanisms which the UK didn't use: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/richard-bird/immigration-blame-the-uk-_b_13120104.html http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/richard-bird/immigration-bla...
  - kypro 9y ago
    Okay, so basically open borders. But do you honestly believe this is a good immigration system other countries should adopt? And if so why don't you think other countries aren't applying this kind of thing? The fact is this type of immigration policy hurts the poorest and lowest skilled in society. It also means even skilled workers have to compete for jobs when there isn't necessarily any need for their skills.

raverbashing 9y ago

> Tick here if you understand while in the EU the UK has effectively zero control over it's immigration and trade. - "its" not "it's" - the UK retains some control of immigration w.r.t EU citizens (some of which they chose not to enforce and it also allows UK citizens to avail of freedom of movement as well) and full control of the immigration of non-EU citizens, so your assertion is false - Brain drain is debatable, there was never a position for a lot of them in the 1st place (and they might just go somewhere else)

kypro 9y ago
> the UK retains some control of immigration w.r.t EU citizens (some of which they chose not to enforce and it also allows UK citizens to avail of freedom of movement as well) and full control of the immigration of non-EU citizens, so your assertion is false As you probably know the control the UK does have over EU citizens is extremely extremely limit. They don't call it "open borders" for no reason believe it or not. > Brain drain is debatable, there was never a position for a lot of them in the 1st place (and they might just go somewhere else) Yeah, well who cares about developing countries as long as the west benefits right? Perhaps we should be focusing on giving them positions in their own countries rather than requiring them to move from their families, friends and culture just for a better life? But morals never play a role in this. It's all about the nations gross-GDP isn't it?
- ben_w 9y ago
  Schengen area is an open border (+), UK-France is not. UK has the right to eject EU citizens who can’t support themselves, but lacks the beurocracy to identify such people. + and even that has exceptions, I was passport-checked going from Italy into France but not France to Italy, I assume because of the state of emergency from the attack a few years ago.
  - kypro 9y ago
    > Schengen area is an open border (+), UK-France is not. UK has the right to eject EU citizens who can’t support themselves, but lacks the beurocracy to identify such people. I understand this, but then the assumption is that this is a good immigration system. A nation shouldn't let anyone in who can get a job and support themselves. It's an awful immigration system which we have no control over and the majority of the public disagree with. I simply can't understand why some people fail to understand what a disgrace that is. I'll also add that it undermines the UK democracy entirely. People who immigrate to the UK from the EU, or have family who did, vote very differently from native Brits. What's happening is people are coming into the UK, against the the public's wishes (and also without them having any political capacity to stop it) then voting against the UK public's wishes in their elections. > + and even that has exceptions, I was passport-checked going from Italy into France but not France to Italy, I assume because of the state of emergency from the attack a few years ago. It's almost like open borders isn't good for national security. Who'd of thought.