4 ms·

Your first argument boils down to "it's difficult to leave so why bother". That's an objectively terrible reason to stay, no matter your political affiliation o

Your first argument boils down to "it's difficult to leave so why bother". That's an objectively terrible reason to stay, no matter your political affiliation or feelings about the EU. As far as the "old people did this to us" meme. The 75% of young people who purportedly are so strongly against brexit probably should have bothered to vote if they wanted that outcome. Additionally, there are other factors than just age that correspond to voting outcome. E.g. degree education, having a passport, income level. And if we afford those people a bit of empathy rather than casting them all as gullible fools or bad people, we might consider that they actually stand to benefit far less (or have plausible reasons to feel this way) from the EU than someone (such as the average HN reader) who has the privilege to e.g. be choosy about employment opportunities, be able to afford educating themselves, be able to afford to travel at will. In any case there are many reasons to feel ambivalent about the EU. I do, and I've taken every opportunity that membership has afforded me. I still don't like how (or by whom) it is run or how expansive its powers have become over time.

b5 9y ago
And if we afford those people a bit of empathy rather than casting them all as gullible fools or bad people, we might consider that they actually stand to benefit far less (or have plausible reasons to feel this way) from the EU than someone (such as the average HN reader) who has the privilege to e.g. be choosy about employment opportunities, be able to afford educating themselves, be able to afford to travel at will. Thank you for writing your comment, and for this part in general. I voted 'Remain' but I couldn't agree more with what you wrote -- the backlash against those who voted 'Leave' has been appalling. With just a little bit more compassion, willingness to listen, and understanding, the division between both sides could possibly be healed. We seem further than ever from that, and the likelihood diminishes every day.
- nkkollaw 9y ago
  Rationally, I agree with you. But if I went with my guts, from the little I know it was old people selling/ruining young people's life. I'd be pretty pissed off, too.
nkkollaw 9y ago
> Your first argument boils down to "it's difficult to leave so why bother". How > we might consider that they actually stand to benefit far less (or have plausible reasons to feel this way) from the EU than someone (such as the average HN reader) Not really. I've seen documentaries where they showed how good Europe was (and still is) to the countryside in many countries where the State didn't allocate any resources and all of a sudden they had money to build libraries in small villages. Those villagers just didn't know where that money came from, but that doesn't change the fact. My girlfriend's sister lives in the Polish country and Europe is giving the area money to take care of the national park around her house that was previously left abandoned and in such bad conditions that you couldn't even walk around with the vegetation left to itself. > I do, and I've taken every opportunity that membership has afforded me. I still don't like how (or by whom) it is run or how expansive its powers have become over time. Actually, the EU seems to be pretty efficient, considered the huge amount of stuff they do. Of course, there's always room to complain, but I don't see any better alternative out there. If you're from the UK though, you'll get to see if your government is a better option I guess?
rusk 9y ago
"it's difficult to leave so why bother" - It's difficult to beat with a whisk than an electrical blender so why bother. - It's difficult to play field sports with half a team so why bother. - It's difficult to cut off your nose to spite your face so why bother. At this time, this is how this argument sounds to me. The EU is an emergent phenomena. The natural course for a collection of neighbour states that wish to have peace and free trade. The UK still wants to have peace and free trade for sure, but has decided to construct an entirely different artifice through which to pursue these goals, quite apart from the states with whom she wants to continue to have peace and free trade!

b5 9y ago

And if we afford those people a bit of empathy rather than casting them all as gullible fools or bad people, we might consider that they actually stand to benefit far less (or have plausible reasons to feel this way) from the EU than someone (such as the average HN reader) who has the privilege to e.g. be choosy about employment opportunities, be able to afford educating themselves, be able to afford to travel at will. Thank you for writing your comment, and for this part in general. I voted 'Remain' but I couldn't agree more with what you wrote -- the backlash against those who voted 'Leave' has been appalling. With just a little bit more compassion, willingness to listen, and understanding, the division between both sides could possibly be healed. We seem further than ever from that, and the likelihood diminishes every day.

nkkollaw 9y ago
Rationally, I agree with you. But if I went with my guts, from the little I know it was old people selling/ruining young people's life. I'd be pretty pissed off, too.

nkkollaw 9y ago

> Your first argument boils down to "it's difficult to leave so why bother". How > we might consider that they actually stand to benefit far less (or have plausible reasons to feel this way) from the EU than someone (such as the average HN reader) Not really. I've seen documentaries where they showed how good Europe was (and still is) to the countryside in many countries where the State didn't allocate any resources and all of a sudden they had money to build libraries in small villages. Those villagers just didn't know where that money came from, but that doesn't change the fact. My girlfriend's sister lives in the Polish country and Europe is giving the area money to take care of the national park around her house that was previously left abandoned and in such bad conditions that you couldn't even walk around with the vegetation left to itself. > I do, and I've taken every opportunity that membership has afforded me. I still don't like how (or by whom) it is run or how expansive its powers have become over time. Actually, the EU seems to be pretty efficient, considered the huge amount of stuff they do. Of course, there's always room to complain, but I don't see any better alternative out there. If you're from the UK though, you'll get to see if your government is a better option I guess?

rusk 9y ago

"it's difficult to leave so why bother" - It's difficult to beat with a whisk than an electrical blender so why bother. - It's difficult to play field sports with half a team so why bother. - It's difficult to cut off your nose to spite your face so why bother. At this time, this is how this argument sounds to me. The EU is an emergent phenomena. The natural course for a collection of neighbour states that wish to have peace and free trade. The UK still wants to have peace and free trade for sure, but has decided to construct an entirely different artifice through which to pursue these goals, quite apart from the states with whom she wants to continue to have peace and free trade!