3 ms·

Do you think UK is open to leaving with no deal then? Granted, if the EU position is sabotaged by some members (as the Polish PM was hinting towards), maybe th

Do you think UK is open to leaving with no deal then? Granted, if the EU position is sabotaged by some members (as the Polish PM was hinting towards), maybe the UK can get a better deal than what implied by the article. But if the EU stands together, I see little reason for them to be considerate to quitters.

the_mitsuhiko 9y ago
> Granted, if the EU position is sabotaged by some members (as the Polish PM was hinting towards) The biggest problem of the EU is also its biggest strength. It needs unity for this. So if Poland goes rogue nothing happens, article 50 kicks in and no deal happens. That indirectly strengthens the EU now quite a bit ironically enough.
- blibble 9y ago
  this is incorrect: Article 50 states that the withdrawal agreement only requires a Qualified Majority, not unanimity Poland's consent is not required
  - the_mitsuhiko 9y ago
    > this is incorrect: Article 50 states that the withdrawal agreement only requires a Qualified Majority, not unanimity But a trade deal with the UK does not. We just went through this with CETA.
    - blibble 9y ago
      trade deals under the Common Commercial Policy also are under QMV: this is the entire point of the EU being delegated responsibility for trade CETA is a mixed agreement: 99% of it is covered under the CCP and went into effect before it had even been voted on by most national parliaments you can confirm for yourself from the EU's own website on CETA (http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/in-focus/ceta/index_en.htm http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/in-focus/ceta/index_en.htm): On 21 September 2017 CETA entered into force provisionally. As such most of the agreement now applies. National parliaments in EU countries – and in some cases regional ones too – will then need to approve CETA before it can take full effect. "full effect" refers to the remaining 1%, which requires unanimity -- and the 99% can go into effect even if the 1% is rejected
      - the_mitsuhiko 9y ago
        You are correct that basic trade agreements do not require parliamentary approval. The assumption however here would be that the UK wants more than that the EU can just hand out itself.
        blibble 9y ago
        so, what I described above: another mixed agreement, where 99% doesn't require unanimity

the_mitsuhiko 9y ago

> Granted, if the EU position is sabotaged by some members (as the Polish PM was hinting towards) The biggest problem of the EU is also its biggest strength. It needs unity for this. So if Poland goes rogue nothing happens, article 50 kicks in and no deal happens. That indirectly strengthens the EU now quite a bit ironically enough.

blibble 9y ago
this is incorrect: Article 50 states that the withdrawal agreement only requires a Qualified Majority, not unanimity Poland's consent is not required
- the_mitsuhiko 9y ago
  > this is incorrect: Article 50 states that the withdrawal agreement only requires a Qualified Majority, not unanimity But a trade deal with the UK does not. We just went through this with CETA.
  - blibble 9y ago
    trade deals under the Common Commercial Policy also are under QMV: this is the entire point of the EU being delegated responsibility for trade CETA is a mixed agreement: 99% of it is covered under the CCP and went into effect before it had even been voted on by most national parliaments you can confirm for yourself from the EU's own website on CETA (http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/in-focus/ceta/index_en.htm http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/in-focus/ceta/index_en.htm): On 21 September 2017 CETA entered into force provisionally. As such most of the agreement now applies. National parliaments in EU countries – and in some cases regional ones too – will then need to approve CETA before it can take full effect. "full effect" refers to the remaining 1%, which requires unanimity -- and the 99% can go into effect even if the 1% is rejected
    - the_mitsuhiko 9y ago
      You are correct that basic trade agreements do not require parliamentary approval. The assumption however here would be that the UK wants more than that the EU can just hand out itself.
      - blibble 9y ago
        so, what I described above: another mixed agreement, where 99% doesn't require unanimity