4 ms·

> CoffeeScript which is a language I personally _loathe_. [...] it was so inaccessible You know JavaScript, yet CoffeeScript is inaccessible? WTF. I had never

> CoffeeScript which is a language I personally _loathe_. [...] it was so inaccessible You know JavaScript, yet CoffeeScript is inaccessible? WTF. I had never written a line of Lisp in my life before using Emacs, but that didn't stop me from writing hundreds of lines of Emacs Lisp during the first weekend that I used Emacs. What's up with the unwillingness (or inability?) that many web developers seem to have for using more than one or two programming languages?

rubyn00bie 9y ago
Why would I learn something which doesn't offer me any value? CoffeeScript is literally syntactical sugar, which I believe, adds levels of indirection to the code and makes it more difficult long-term to support, read, and develop. Not only that, but JavaScript's evolution has made nearly every reason to use it moot. Also FWIW-- I've done vastly more native and server-side programming over the last... oh, seven years than "web." So... I don't think this is something with "web developers."
keymone 9y ago
yeah, I could see myself saying the same but not about coffeescript. That thing just needs to go away, seriously. Having to constantly keep a mental model of two languages when you write code outweighs any benefits from syntax sugar and supposed readability. It was nice ten years ago when JavaScript was absolutely horrendous but not now.
- oneweekwonder 9y ago
  > It was nice ten years ago when JavaScript was absolutely horrendous but not now. ECMAScript 5 was released in December 2009, Coffeescript first appeared the same month with release 0.1.0. What was absolutely horrendous about ECMAScript 5? edit: Javascript 1.8 shipped with Firefox 3 in June 2008.
  - keymone 9y ago
    i don't even.. for people making these claims there's just no way to convey how horrific js development was until quite recently (it still is far worse than most popular languages out there tbh) other than inventing a time machine and sending you there, but then it's a kind of punishment i wouldn't want upon my worst enemy. browser fragmentation rings any bells? were you actually doing js dev back then?
    - tigershark 9y ago
      What is the connection between browser fragmentation and coffescript syntax? Coffescript was born to have a lighter JavaScript-like syntax, not to remove browsers fragmentation.
      - keymone 9y ago
        the connection is between fragmentation and claim that ecmascript and js 1.8 were released and everything magically became great in december 2009 as was implied by the grandparent.
        oneweekwonder 9y ago
        > magically became great in 2009 as was implied by the grandparent. I implied nothing, I asked you a question. Might have been a bit open ended but you made a claim that did not reflect with my reality. So I did a reality check. If there was a "magic" moment I will give chrome released late 2008 and firebug 1.4 released early 2009 the attribution for a turning point in webdev.
        keymone 9y ago
        > I implied nothing X was horrible ten years ago -> but X' was actually released 10 years ago, what was horrible about X'? sorry, there is no way for me to interpret that other than implying that my statement was false. there were multiple magic moments, but js didn't stop being horrible on daily basis for another couple years. having chrome debugger or firebug didn't save you from having to support internet explorer, did it?
qubex 9y ago
> that didn’t stop me from writing hundreds of lines of Emacs Lisp Oh, you wrote an A.I.-enabled missile launch control system in your first weekend too? ;)

rubyn00bie 9y ago

Why would I learn something which doesn't offer me any value? CoffeeScript is literally syntactical sugar, which I believe, adds levels of indirection to the code and makes it more difficult long-term to support, read, and develop. Not only that, but JavaScript's evolution has made nearly every reason to use it moot. Also FWIW-- I've done vastly more native and server-side programming over the last... oh, seven years than "web." So... I don't think this is something with "web developers."

keymone 9y ago

yeah, I could see myself saying the same but not about coffeescript. That thing just needs to go away, seriously. Having to constantly keep a mental model of two languages when you write code outweighs any benefits from syntax sugar and supposed readability. It was nice ten years ago when JavaScript was absolutely horrendous but not now.

oneweekwonder 9y ago
> It was nice ten years ago when JavaScript was absolutely horrendous but not now. ECMAScript 5 was released in December 2009, Coffeescript first appeared the same month with release 0.1.0. What was absolutely horrendous about ECMAScript 5? edit: Javascript 1.8 shipped with Firefox 3 in June 2008.
- keymone 9y ago
  i don't even.. for people making these claims there's just no way to convey how horrific js development was until quite recently (it still is far worse than most popular languages out there tbh) other than inventing a time machine and sending you there, but then it's a kind of punishment i wouldn't want upon my worst enemy. browser fragmentation rings any bells? were you actually doing js dev back then?
  - tigershark 9y ago
    What is the connection between browser fragmentation and coffescript syntax? Coffescript was born to have a lighter JavaScript-like syntax, not to remove browsers fragmentation.
    - keymone 9y ago
      the connection is between fragmentation and claim that ecmascript and js 1.8 were released and everything magically became great in december 2009 as was implied by the grandparent.
      - oneweekwonder 9y ago
        > magically became great in 2009 as was implied by the grandparent. I implied nothing, I asked you a question. Might have been a bit open ended but you made a claim that did not reflect with my reality. So I did a reality check. If there was a "magic" moment I will give chrome released late 2008 and firebug 1.4 released early 2009 the attribution for a turning point in webdev.
        keymone 9y ago
        > I implied nothing X was horrible ten years ago -> but X' was actually released 10 years ago, what was horrible about X'? sorry, there is no way for me to interpret that other than implying that my statement was false. there were multiple magic moments, but js didn't stop being horrible on daily basis for another couple years. having chrome debugger or firebug didn't save you from having to support internet explorer, did it?

qubex 9y ago

> that didn’t stop me from writing hundreds of lines of Emacs Lisp Oh, you wrote an A.I.-enabled missile launch control system in your first weekend too? ;)